D&D 3E/3.5 3.5 Only Smackdown

[Legildur]

Race: Dwarf
Druid 8 (for large wildshape)
Monk 1
Dwarven Defender 1
Duellist 10
AC bonus from monk for wis 34 (18, 5 level increases, +5 book, +6 enhancement) = +12
Wear wild dragonskin full plate + 5 = +13

From the SRD:

AC Bonus (Ex): When unarmored and unencumbered, the monk adds her Wisdom bonus (if any) to her AC.

Not quite sure how this all applies under wildshape, but the monk bonuses look a little dodgy.

 

[jabberwocky]

Base: 10

+11 Natural Armor (polymorph into a green hag)
+13 Dex (18 base + 5 [levels] + 5 [inherit] + 6 [gloves] + 2 [hag])
+7 shield - heavy shield +5

AC 85

When you polymorph into a green hag, you gain the base Dex of the Hag, not the ability adjustment - base 12 +16 modifiers: a +9 dex modifier.
and you can add another defending property if you enchant your shield as a +5 defending weapon and have improved shield bash and two weapon fighting. so you would lose 4 points from dex, but could gain 5 from the extra defending.

 

[robberbaron]

I must add my two-pennyworth on the subject of weapon choice and charging from the top of this thread.

As I understand it, the lance is a weapon used when mounted and the extra "charging" damage is only applied when charging on horse-back (or whatever you ride). Similarly, Spirited Charge is used to force your mount into going a little bit faster into the melee, therefore giving more impact damage.
If you are merely going to charge into combat on foot you get +2 to hit, and no extra damage.

Also, if you are going to make yourself bigger to get more strength, you may well find yourself too large to ride anything, and potentially too far off the ground to hit your target although, I suppose a Huge Lance would also give more damage and a longer reach.

BTW, I am amazed at the figures for AC and damage. I'll have to see if I can get one of my characters even partway to such dizzying hardness.

Interesting thread, guys. Keep it up.

 

[jabberwocky]

The druid COULD use a single charge staff of shapechange (only 3375 gold for 25th caster level) and then assume the form of a great wyrm gold dragon, which would replace 10 points of the AC of the build with the 42 AC of the great wyrm, bumping the build's AC to 134.

And incidentally, I don't need to take more than 5 levels of druid now (because I don't need dire bat form for AC any more...) - can anyone get me more AC from 3 levels somewhere?

Thanks for going through the wild shape/wild armor/alter self rundown.
But I'm not sure I'm following this - instead of alter self, youre shapechanging into a gold dragon, right? In which case you're losing 13 points of AC from size and dex, and gaining 34 points of natural armor, so I see the AC at 124 - am I missing something?
3 more Dwarven Defender levels would get you another +1 AC, and adding a monks belt would give you 1 more point of AC as well. Also, reading a scroll of foresight would give you a +2 insight bonus, replacing the ioun stone's +1. This brings your AC to 127.

 

[Snipehunt]

Funny you should mention that...

but Death Knell, the Evil Domain, the Orange Ioun Stone, Spell Power, and Karma Bead strands all provide unnamed bonuses to Caster Level. That means that not only do they all stack, but there's no reason to believe that they don't stack with other similar effects.

Death Knell does not, however, stack with itself. Neither do Orange Ioun Stones or Karma Beads. So, outside of spell power, you can get a maximum of +1 (death knell) +1 (evil) +1(stone) +4 (karma), or +7. Still pretty good, though.

 

[Snipehunt]

Questionable Mystic Theurge Smack

Object = Massive Number of Instant Death Saves.

Wizard3/Cleric3/MT10/TN1/Archmage3

Magic Items:
2xOrange Ioun Stones
2xBeads of Karma

Spells:
Death Knell
Death Knell
Wail of the Banshee

Active both Beads of Karma. Use one to modify Cleric caster level, one to modify Wizard caster level. The descriptoin says only that you need to cast a Cleric spell to activate it; nothing seems to prohibit it from modifying Wizard spells (unless there's an errata or something out there).

Wizard Caster Level=17+1(stone)+4(karma)+3(spell power)+1(Death Knell)=26
Cleric Caster Level=13+1(stone)+4(Karma)+1(Death Knell)=19

Caster Level for Necromantic Spells=45

Take out the second Karma - 41.

 

[FrankTrollman]

Death Knell does not, however, stack with itself. Neither do Orange Ioun Stones or Karma Beads. So, outside of spell power, you can get a maximum of +1 (death knell) +1 (evil) +1(stone) +4 (karma), or +7. Still pretty good, though.

Um... actually there is no rule that Karma Beads don't stack with each other. There is open debate as to whether the rule that unnamed bonuses stacks supercedes the rule that the same spell doesn't provide cumulative benefits - but there isn't a rule like that for magic items.

On page 171 it says that

Spells that provide bonuses or penalties on attack rolls, damage rolls, saving throws, and other attributes usually do not stack with themselves.

While on page 172 it says:

A bonus that isn't named (just a "+2 bonus" rather than a "+2 resistance bonus") stacks with any bonus.

So if you consider the caster level bonus from Death Knell to be included in "other attributes" - then the rules are contradictory on whether Death Knell stacks for Caster Level. However, while page 172 says that Orange Ioun Stones stack - as they are unnamed bonuses; page 171 does not say that they don't stack - because they are not spells.

So you can take Spell Power from Heirophant. You can cast Death Knell. You can have the Evil Domain. And then you can have as many Orange Ioun Stones and sets of Karma Beads as you can afford. And your Blasphemy will kill all non-evil creatures within range without a save.

-Frank

 

[Snipehunt]

No, the quote from P. 171 covers it. Common rule of construction = if two rules can be read so as not to contradict eath other, than that is how they should be read. So, the p. 172 rule doesn't contradict the first, it is a subset of the first. Bonuses from the same spell don't stack. Even bonuses from different spells don't stack if the bonus has the same name.

IIRC, the same rule applies to magic items, although I'm not sure. Might be just carrying over the logic of spells to magic items.

In any event, it's not going to be very helpful to post smackdowns using interpretations that are at best questionable, and probably use invalid rules. But feel free to post the uber-karma caster. Caster level, what, 120?

 

[FrankTrollman]

No, the quote from P. 171 covers it. Common rule of construction = if two rules can be read so as not to contradict eath other, than that is how they should be read. So, the p. 172 rule doesn't contradict the first, it is a subset of the first.

If that were in fact the case - then the fact that the not stacking is "usually", but the stacking is absolute - then spells wouldn't stack with themselves unless they gave a specific unnamed bonus.

The only way there could be even a question that Death Knell doesn't stack with itself is if those two rules were entirely separate - otherwise the unnamed bonus stacking rule is the exception that is allowed by the "usually" in the wording of the same spells not stacking rule.

IIRC, the same rule applies to magic items, although I'm not sure. Might be just carrying over the logic of spells to magic items.

There is no such rule for magic items - which is unsurprising as every magic item is unique and something which is game mechanically an Orange Ioun Stone could just as easily be a power-earring or those shoulder pads Lina Inverse wears.

While every time you cast Death Knell it is recognizable as "Death Knell" - magic items can be anything at all that fits in the same slot and does the same thing. So there's really not supposed to be any identical wondrous items for this to be an issue with - and thus, no rule.

-Frank

 

[Hypersmurf]

And then you can have as many sets of Karma Beads as you can afford.

Which, under 3.5 Core Rules as written, is, uh, all of them.

The market value of a Standard Strand of Prayer Bead with only the Karma Bead on it is zero gp, according to the DMG.

-Hyp.