3.5 Psions Broken?

Zardnaar

Legend
So I tan unto a huy last week still playing 3.5. Anyway psions were banned in his game
We got talking and he showed me why. Generally a few higher level powers eg level 8 powers. They were probably broken.

BUT I'm more concerned about level 1-7 and if someone really wants to break 3
5 they can write Druid on their character sheet.

So that's basically it. The few things I banned in 3.5 usually weren't about the power level at higher levels but more like things at liwerblevel tgat clogged up the game (summoning type feats) or Frenzied Berzerker (that coukd kill other members of the group).
 

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Retreater

Legend
When I played a psion in 3.5, it definitely should've been banned. I was ridiculously overpowered. Just like psionicists in 2e (with the right supplements) were ridiculously overpowered.
When an entire magic system is dropped into a game as an afterthought, it's not surprising that it's not well balanced.
 

Zardnaar

Legend
When I played a psion in 3.5, it definitely should've been banned. I was ridiculously overpowered. Just like psionicists in 2e (with the right supplements) were ridiculously overpowered.
When an entire magic system is dropped into a game as an afterthought, it's not surprising that it's not well balanced.

Not usining psionics as magic rule?
 

Retreater

Legend
Not usining psionics as magic rule?
No, we did. We applied SR to psionics and everything.

Primarily the overpowered-ness came from a few "gaming the system" tricks I learned...
1) Being able to go nova and use more high-level abilities than other casters
2) Overcharging psionics for an even greater effect
3) Storing extra PSPs in psicrystals
4) Getting more PSPs than a regular allotment of spell slots through feats, inflated ability scores, and prestige classes

If a DM didn't know how to deal with it, you were unstoppable.
 


Retreater

Legend
Times like this, I always want to point people toward the post that Jeremy Smith (of Dreamscarred Press) wrote about why psionics isn't overpowered. It was technically written for Pathfinder 1E, but it's a good read for 3.5 also:

I can't speak to Ultimate Psionics (I did purchase it, but never used it for Pathfinder), but I can say that I was completely able to wreck 3.5 with psionics.
Everything I did was "legal." This was during a time when I was writing professionally for 3.5, so I was very accustomed to tracking every point and "showing the math."
 

Alzrius

The EN World kitten
I can't speak to Ultimate Psionics (I did purchase it, but never used it for Pathfinder), but I can say that I was completely able to wreck 3.5 with psionics.
Everything I did was "legal." This was during a time when I was writing professionally for 3.5, so I was very accustomed to tracking every point and "showing the math."
Would you mind posting some of your examples, in that case? I'm a bit curious to look them over.
 

Pedantic

Legend
The issue nearly always seems to be the nova problem. The spell point system is even more vulnerable to the 15-minute workday than normal vancian casting.
 

Retreater

Legend
Would you mind posting some of your examples, in that case? I'm a bit curious to look them over.
As Staind so eloquently put it, "It's Been a While..."
But I can give it a try.

The route I remember taking was getting the prestige class, Metamind. So you get the following...
1) Free Manifesting (which allows access to powers without spending power points)
2) Free Cognizance Crystals (which allows access to stored power points)
3) Increased level in powers and power points as if you continued to advance in your core class.

That gets you a lot of power points (or "virtual" power points through free manifesting).
4) More power points based on high Intelligence, so augment that Intelligence as high as you can.

As far as the actual characters go (and all my 3.x era writing in general), my ex-wife deleted the files.
 

Alzrius

The EN World kitten
As Staind so eloquently put it, "It's Been a While..."
But I can give it a try.

The route I remember taking was getting the prestige class, Metamind. So you get the following...
1) Free Manifesting (which allows access to powers without spending power points)
2) Free Cognizance Crystals (which allows access to stored power points)
3) Increased level in powers and power points as if you continued to advance in your core class.
That gets you a lot of power points (or "virtual" power points through free manifesting).
Metamind had some issues, I'll admit (there's a reason the Dreamscarred guys rewrote it so heavily when converting its 3.5 incarnation to Pathfinder), but that's more of an indictment with that prestige class than the psionic system as a whole.
4) More power points based on high Intelligence, so augment that Intelligence as high as you can.
Buffing Intelligence for more power points isn't that much different from buffing any other casting stat for additional spells. Yes, you can allocate more points toward augmentations of higher-level powers rather than having them locked into lower-level powers the way bonus spells are, but the total number of points which you can sink into any particular power remains capped.
As far as the actual characters go (and all my 3.x era writing in general), my ex-wife deleted the files.
Ouch! Sorry to hear that! :(
 

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