34th level magic items...how about 40th level items...42 maybe

[GMforPowergamers]

ok, first yes I know items stop at level 30, as do PC levels. this is an Exercise in theory only…in no way am I thinking this is RAW or RAI…

I was thinking though, if you followed the chart in the DMG for tresure parsels as a patern you would start to get level 31 items at level 27...then 32 at 28 and 33 at 29 and 34 at 30. You would as a group at level 30 (end game) have 1 34, 2 33, 3 32, and 4 31...or to put it another way 10 over 30 items for 5 characters...

we then have from EPG:

Master Crafter: prereq Artificer

benfit: Create magic items of your level + your Intelligence modifier or lower

now imagin you start with a 16 Int, and put all 8 bumps into it...24. That is a +7 mod. So at level 25 you could make a 31st level item...
now what about if you started with a 20, and went demi god...you have a 30 Int +10...at 30th level so you could make 40th level items...


now imagin this every weapon/armor/implment/neck item has a set pattern. So in theory if a +6 vorpal sword was 30th level, then a +7 one is 35th, and a +8 one is 40th...
It gets crazyer...

Mark of Making — Create magic items of your level + 2 or lower, perform certain rituals

if it stacks (If I don't know yet without more info) you could make level 42 magic items at level 30... so a Bloodclaw +6 great ace is level 27, so +7 is 32, and +8 is 37...and +9 is 42...

Belt of Vigar, Belt of Vim, Boots of Quickness, Circlet of Indomability, Gloves of the giant, Iron armbands of power...they all scale by 10s...so at level 6 iron arm bands give +2...level 16 +4...level 26 +6...so if I could make a level 36 item could I get +8???

now then in theory these items are only useable in the end game, and even then are limited much more then any other level of item (and cost way too much)...butwhat do you think would happen if a DM allowed it...would this be going to far...can the system take this?
also what other crazy things would this open up??

Just to add more to this crazy train...the rust monster nightmare has the limit of only destroying level 30 or less magic items...

 

[MortalPlague]

If someone's prepared to spend the feats to do it, I don't see a problem with this.

These PCs are epic. The extra +1 or +2 they get isn't going to break the game compared with the other things they can do.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

Could a PC even afford the price for a level 42 item, considering the item cost progression?

 

[Badwe]

I calculated this out once. to go from an item level n to level n+5, you multiply the cost of the magic item by 5. so if a level 1 item is 360gp, a level 6 is 1800, a level 11 is 9000, and a level 15 is 45000. This has an interesting side effect that disenchanting an item of level n gives you enough residuum to craft an item of level n-5.

Assuming this doesn't break down at high levels:

level 20: 125,000gp
level 25: 625,000gp
level 30: 3,125,000gp
level 35: 15,625,000gp
level 40: 78,125,000gp

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hey there!

ok, first yes I know items stop at level 30, as do PC levels. this is an Exercise in theory only…in no way am I thinking this is RAW or RAI…

I was thinking though, if you followed the chart in the DMG for tresure parsels as a patern you would start to get level 31 items at level 27...then 32 at 28 and 33 at 29 and 34 at 30. You would as a group at level 30 (end game) have 1 34, 2 33, 3 32, and 4 31...or to put it another way 10 over 30 items for 5 characters...

No reason at all why this couldn't happen. I have been pondering why some of the most powerful monsters (31+) don't have +7 weapons.

we then have from EPG:

now imagin you start with a 16 Int, and put all 8 bumps into it...24. That is a +7 mod. So at level 25 you could make a 31st level item...
now what about if you started with a 20, and went demi god...you have a 30 Int +10...at 30th level so you could make 40th level items...

Been wondering about gods like Hephaestus and Goibhnie and what sort of items they could create. My thoughts on the matter are that they could create items a tier better than the normal rules suggest.

now imagin this every weapon/armor/implment/neck item has a set pattern. So in theory if a +6 vorpal sword was 30th level, then a +7 one is 35th, and a +8 one is 40th...
It gets crazyer...

All seems very straightforward to me.

if it stacks (If I don't know yet without more info) you could make level 42 magic items at level 30... so a Bloodclaw +6 great ace is level 27, so +7 is 32, and +8 is 37...and +9 is 42...

Belt of Vigar, Belt of Vim, Boots of Quickness, Circlet of Indomability, Gloves of the giant, Iron armbands of power...they all scale by 10s...so at level 6 iron arm bands give +2...level 16 +4...level 26 +6...so if I could make a level 36 item could I get +8???

now then in theory these items are only useable in the end game, and even then are limited much more then any other level of item (and cost way too much)...butwhat do you think would happen if a DM allowed it...would this be going to far...can the system take this?

I think the system can take this fairly easily. Its only a small increase in power for a relatively immense cost. Looking at the wealth guidelines it doesn't look as though a Level 30 PC could own anything better than a Level 34 item.

also what other crazy things would this open up??

I have some nice artifact creation rules in the pipeline.

I think artifacts in general should be powered a tier above where they are supposed to fall into the PCs hands? For instance, the Axe of the Dwarvish Lords is not really that much better than items epic characters will have. Mechanically I don't see it making much of an impact. Given that artifacts are only meant to be in the PCs possession for a limited amount of time they should represent a noticeable boost.

Just to add more to this crazy train...the rust monster nightmare has the limit of only destroying level 30 or less magic items...

...so are you saying there must be some sort of 'artifact-eating abomination' out there...?

 

[Asmor]

Could a PC even afford the price for a level 42 item, considering the item cost progression?

I calculated this out once. to go from an item level n to level n+5, you multiply the cost of the magic item by 5. so if a level 1 item is 360gp, a level 6 is 1800, a level 11 is 9000, and a level 15 is 45000. This has an interesting side effect that disenchanting an item of level n gives you enough residuum to craft an item of level n-5.

Assuming this doesn't break down at high levels:

level 20: 125,000gp
level 25: 625,000gp
level 30: 3,125,000gp
level 35: 15,625,000gp
level 40: 78,125,000gp

And that's the main rub. I don't know what the economy's like at that level, but even a single level 40 item costs 25 times what a level 30 item costs and frankly I don't think the PCs (or, necessarily, anyone for that matter!) would have access to those sorts of resources.

A level 42 item would cost over 200 million gold, btw.

No reason at all why this couldn't happen. I have been pondering why some of the most powerful monsters (31+) don't have +7 weapons.

Because as a general rule in fourth edition monsters don't use magic items at all?

Been wondering about gods like Hephaestus and Goibhnie and what sort of items they could create.

Artifacts

 

[Badwe]

i think it's fair to say a 40th level item would be well out of reach if the DM even allowed it to exist. to create such an item would need the residuum value of 5 level 35 items, which would each in turn require the residuum value of 5 level 30 items. and while level 30 items can be acquired, they disenchant into the residuum needed to make a level 25 item.

Let's get a little more granularity. The increment of items in a given range of levels, 1-5, 6-10, 11-15, etc. etc. is also 5 times the previous increment, and the first one is 160. so

level range increment
1-5 160
6-10 800
11-15 4,000
16-20 20,000
21-25 100,000
26-30 500,000
31-35 2,500,000
36-40 12,500,000


So assuming the highest attainable item in treasure parcels were 33 instead of 30, the prices would look like this:

item level cost residuum disenchant value
30 3,125,000gp 625,000gp
31 5,725,000gp 1,145,000gp
32 8,225,000gp 1,645,000gp
33 10,725,000gp 2,145,000gp
34 13,225,000gp 2,645,000gp

now math it out, at 27 they get a 30, at 28 at 30+31, at 29 a 30+31+32, and at 30 they get a 30+31+32+33

so 30*4 + 31*3 + 32*2 + 33 = 625k*4 + 1,145k*3 + 1,645k*2 + 2,145k = 2,500k + 3,435k + 4,935k + 2,145k = 13,015,000gp from disenchanting all of them.

that would put them within reach, from GP supplies from everything below 30, of making a single 35 item at 15,625,000gp for a 35. with a level 40 costing in excess of 78million GP, i don't see that happening without some DM fudging, probably not recomended. keep in mind a level 40 item would be, for example, a +8 vorpal sword.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

If you add in things like the rituelist ring...or the epic destiny that half cost all rits... well then you can get them at 1/2 (1/4 if use both...or 1/2 then 1/2again)

 

[GMforPowergamers]

...so are you saying there must be some sort of 'artifact-eating abomination' out there...?

yes... I don't know what the rules on 3.5 materal stuff is, but there is a monster called the Annilator...it is a cross betweent he rust monster and the sphear of annalation...

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

If you add in things like the rituelist ring...or the epic destiny that half cost all rits... well then you can get them at 1/2 (1/4 if use both...or 1/2 then 1/2again)

And it still would not be enough!