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4e Annoyances for those who like 4e

NMcCoy

Explorer
Interesting that some things called out here as negative aspects are positive ones in my personal experience.

Mainly for me, it's "things WotC would have done differently knowing then what they know now" - V-shaped classes, math quirks, understanding of the Controller role, unifying weapon and implement powers a bit more.

I could personally do without level-ups raising ability scores, thus staving off the stat-skew that leads to NAD imbalance; I'm not hugely attached to the sacred cow of +X items either. (This would also fix the clunky attack roll modifiers on things like dragonborn breath weapons.)

The Character Builder should have a dedicated "Conditional Bonuses" panel on the character sheet, with footnote-type references on things like skills. The action point card really ought to have AP-relevant bonuses on it (paragon path, etc).

A somewhat more solid foundation for dealing with timing quirks would be good. (Even WotC forgets the rules for Immediate actions at times - e.g., the Sivak Draconian.) Does a paladin's Divine Challenge damage negate the triggering attack if it drops the marked creature? It's not an Interrupt or Reaction, just a "when". (This would be as simple to fix as creating Free Interrupt and Free Reaction keywords for triggered free actions...)

They've got a start at getting things solidly keyword-codified, but dropped the ball on some really important things (like "Attack"). Some have complained that it's too much like Magic: the Gathering; personally, I feel that it's not quite enough like Magic. Compare the wording of Alpha-set cards with modern ones - the rules-tech of D&D 4e is not yet as precisely honed as modern Magic currently is, and having certain things tagged/structured to make them more easily parseable by humans and machines would be fantastic. (For example, the Character Builder doesn't pick damage rolls out of powers as well as it should - consider Dragonflame Mantle, and the fact that it's not an implement power but it is an arcane power, so I add Sorcerous Power to it but not my +3 dagger... right?) This should be as simple as something like <damageroll annotation="to a creature that hits you with a melee attack">1d6 fire damage</damageroll> in the CB database.
 

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ppaladin123

Adventurer
I think I'll add one larger and one quite small annoyance:

Large: Multi-class is too feat intensive. I'd rather a single feat that allows one encounter, utility and daily power swap. That frees up "regular" feats for the character. There could also be more accessible feats that grant additional class features (full strength or reduced strength). Those that currently exist require paragon multiclassing, which is almost never worth the opportunity cost.

Small: Skill powers are great and have out-of-combat utility...so why do we have to swap out combat utility powers for them?
 



EroGaki

First Post
I second the flavor text. It's amazing that it's the same company that makes magic.

Also I really don't like the base setting and the cosmology. I don't like the words feywild or shadowfell, and I don't like the elemental chaos being all mixed together. It made for some cool hybrid elementals, though, so I guess it'll do. Still, I don't like how the base setting bleeds so much into the mechanics.

Also I used to really hate the Angel's aesthetic but the MM2 made them look pretty sweet.

1.The Cosmology bugs me. Alot. And yes, I personally cannot stand "Feywild," "shadowfell," and "Elemental Chaos."

2. Scrying Rituals. Too expensive for the tiny duration.
 

NMcCoy

Explorer
1.The Cosmology bugs me. Alot. And yes, I personally cannot stand "Feywild," "shadowfell," and "Elemental Chaos."
This is one of those things that's definitely in YMMV territory - I was one of those that found the old cosmology vaguely interesting and vaguely goofy, but I totally dig the Feywild, Shadowfell, and Elemental Chaos. But maybe that's because I grew up on Arthurian mythology and Legend of Zelda: a Link to the Past.
 

avin

First Post
Legend of Zelda: a Link to the Past.

Love this game but I'm not very fond of Shadow and Faerie looking "more important" than other planes... and only two mirror planes? Why? Elemental Chaos should be a place where all elemental planes are linked... yeah, yeah, I forgot to say that the new cosmology bugs me a lot... =/
 

fuzzlewump

First Post
1. For me, it's a problem with the naming convention. I think it would have been more interesting have real names for the places, like an Eladrin name for the Feywild, like for example a Tolkien-type name "Lothruin" and underneath would say "colloquially known as Fae, the Wild Beyond, or the Feywild." As it stands, you imagine Eladrin calling their homeworld the "feywild" because it's wild and has fey in it! It's one thing to have a human town named like that, for instance "Willowbrook" that has willow trees and is situated next to a river, but an entire enchanted world full of various life and legends and heroes etc called the "Feywild?" Thankfully, this is very easily house ruled, but it still bugs me how often I have to see this magical realm referenced as "Feywild."

Shadowfell, of course, has the same issue. Like Penny Arcade pointed out, it's really just "Darkbad." It's akin to have a realm called "Grimdark." I mean, it may be a good descriptor, but a good name? I don't think so.

"Margonoth, as it known to the Shadar-Kai, or colloquially known as the Plane of Shadow, the Dark World, or the Shadowfell..." I would much prefer. Of course, it may be more annoying to have to deal with a bad made-up name versus a bad name that at least describes the idea.
 

I really hate the Milestones rules because they impose an annoying metagame limit on the use of my magic items. I want the Daily power of a magic item to be a Daily power without any restrictions. If I think it is necessarry to activate my five magic items during the first encounter I want to be able to do that, dammit.

I also want to be able to use my Action Point in every encounter if I feel like it.

The Milestone rules really irritate me with extra bookkeeping and for making me miss opportunities to do cool stuff.
 

delericho

Legend
The core is too damn big. The original set of core rulebooks runs to 832 pages, which IMO is about three times too much. Having introduced D&D to various young people, and having literally seen the enthusiasm drain from them at the prospect of "having to read all that", I'm convinced this has to be a big barrier to entry.

(FWIW, Pathfinder is even worse in this area - 896 pages between the Core Rulebook and the Bestiary, and much more dense text - there may be as much as 50% more material there than in 4e.)

At the same time (and an odd complaint to put next to the first one), the 'core game' made up of the first three core rulebooks feels very... limited. (I'm not going to say 'incomplete', because that's really not accurate but yes, it is essentially that same complaint.) It feels to me like a rather nice 'starter set', but is almost crying out for "X Power" and at least "Monster Manual 2" to make it really sing.

(I have no idea how you could fix both those issues together, if it is even possible to do so. That's just the feeling I get.)

(Oh, and while I'm at it, I hate that they've redefined 'core' so that there's now no easy way to refer to "Players Handbook 1", "Dungeon Master's Guide 1" and "Monster Manual 1" collectively.)

I also feel that some areas of the rules are still overly complicated. 4e has made some big strides to being a simpler game, and has gone a long way to being more newbie-friendly (especially newbie-DM-friendly), but there is still a ways to go.

(There are other things I don't like about the game, but they're much more matters of personal taste. Since I'm not the biggest fan of the game - although there is a lot I admire about it - and since I have no desire to kick off an edition war, I'll not bring in every little thing.)
 

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