4e Cosmology Changes

[Obryn]

Summary: I could care less.

Apart from Expedition to the Demonweb Pits, and a mini-campaign that was part of my Arcana Evolved campaign, I've never run an extraplanar game.

I love the 1e Manual of the Planes. I think it's a brilliant piece of work, and keep it on my shelf with my 3e/4e stuff. I never dug the Great Wheel thing; it was so artificial, in my mind. Still, this book was a treasure trove of ideas.

I hated Planescape's setup. It basically neutered the outer planes. I want the outer planes to be alien and dangerous, not someplace you just jump to.

Now, with 4e, I can slide in anything I like from the Manual of the Planes and roll with it. Simplicity itself!

-O

 

[The_Fan]

I do like it, even though I will miss the great wheel. Conceptually interesting, but almost impossible to adventure in half the planes.

Now:

Astral Sea: "above" the world. Where most of the old outer planes now exist in one form or another as the domains of gods, along with the citadel of the Githyanki and others.

Feywild: "beside" this world. This world's brighter, more vibrant reflection. Also more dangerous, wild, and arcane.

Shadowfell: also "beside." The world's darker, sinister reflection. Not necessarily evil, but definately dark. Gloomy, sinister, frightening...it is where souls stop after death before going...somewhere.

Elemental Chaos: "below" the world, where all the elements run together and churn, forming blends of air, fire, earth, and water. Earthbergs blown on icy winds across molten seas and you get the idea.

The Far Realm: "beyond." Beyond all human comprehension, the twisted realm of cosmic horror.

 

[GeorgeFields]

My current plan is for the Manual of the Planes to be the ONLY 4e book I ever buy if I like it after thumbing through it.

The new cosmology is about the only thing about 4e that I think I like. I've never really liked the great wheel, but I've always accepted it as canon.

 

[Wik]

Summary: I could care less.

Apart from Expedition to the Demonweb Pits, and a mini-campaign that was part of my Arcana Evolved campaign, I've never run an extraplanar game.

I love the 1e Manual of the Planes. I think it's a brilliant piece of work, and keep it on my shelf with my 3e/4e stuff. I never dug the Great Wheel thing; it was so artificial, in my mind. Still, this book was a treasure trove of ideas.

I hated Planescape's setup. It basically neutered the outer planes. I want the outer planes to be alien and dangerous, not someplace you just jump to.

Now, with 4e, I can slide in anything I like from the Manual of the Planes and roll with it. Simplicity itself!

-O

QFT, pretty much.

The only planar part of my campaigns is the home of the Eladrin, the "Twilight Court".

 

[Miar]

I prefer the Astral Sea to the old Great Wheel. Thor doesn't have to live on Mount Olympus now and it isn't tied to the nine alignment system,

I agree and if you really like the Great Wheel (which I never did) it's easy enough to stick it in the Astral Sea.

 

[SKyOdin]

I like it, primarily because the Feywild and Shadowfell are eerily similar to some of my old homebrew ideas. I think the Elemental Chaos and Astral Sea are good places for adventures too. I have gotten a lot more good ideas for adventures and campaigns from the new planar set-up than the old one.

 

[Wormwood]

The only planar part of my campaigns is the home of the Eladrin, the "Twilight Court".

In a similar vein, a couple of my players are really taken with the whole Feywild concept.

 

[hong]

The new cosmology means you're no longer playing in EGG's homebrew, distilled 100 times.

 

[Gothmog]

I'm sorry, but Great Wheel = 100% pure, cliche, simplistic, unadulterated crap. I never understood the appeal of the Great Wheel- dividing planes according to alignment and populating them with predominantly creatures of that alignment struck me as simplistic and supremely lazy. Then they added redundant planes, non-sensical planes (positive and negative energy for example), and then played make believe that every plane was pretty much a nation. Sorry, thats just boring to me.

I like the 4e cosmology MUCH more. There are fewer planes, but they have a unified theme or purpose, and make sense in the larger picture. Plus, the 4e cosmology is VERY close to the cosmology I came up with for my homebrew back in the 1e days, and still use today.

Material Plane= Terrestrial Empyrean
Shadowfell= Shadow Empyrean
Feywild= Spirit world/faerie
Far Realm= Unnamed place in my cosmology where elder beings were trapped
Elemental Chaos= Primal Vortex, the place where elements merge and creation began
Hell= well, Infernal Empyrean (Hell) in my game too, populated by demons AND devils
Astral Sea= no corresponding place in my cosmology, but I can see why they used it in 4e as a vast gulf between different god's domains

The 4e cosmology is more evocative to me because it fits themes and ideas that are familiar to us from legends, fairy tales, and stories. The Great Wheel is a gamist construct that tries to evenly represent every alignment, as well as some clunky/cumbersome ideas that fell flat on their face in the way they were executed. Plus, so many players got dogmatically attached to the "canon" of the Great Wheel- and anytime I see someone froth at the mouth about "canon", I intentionally change things to keep things fresh and fun (and to cause them an aneurysm). Yeah, I'm perverse that way. So RIP Great Wheel- you won't be missed here.

I know there are quite a few Planescape fans, but I always found that setting to be the 90's equivalent of Vampire (ooh, we're all spikey haired and gothy, and say "berk" a lot). Plus, by making the planes so accessible, they become mundane and boring. Blah. I don't need angst injected into my planes to make them interesting and otherworldly. All I need for that are real-world myths and my imagination.

 

[Spatula]

The new cosmology has two actual benefits:

2. It's tied to the 4e fluff.

Hmm? Of course it is. The old planes were tied to the old fluff, too.

("Dante's Inferno? Yeah, that's downstairs just past Mount Olympus and the place where dead Vikings go. Near the food court.")

They removed Dante's hell from D&D?! <checks DMG> Nope, still in there.