D&D (2024) 4e design in 5.5e ?

[theCourier]

Yep. The point of the funnel is not only to pick up the pieces that remain and have them be Level 1's, but to have fun watching unlucky peasants get destroyed in all sorts of ways!

 

[overgeeked]

Yep. The point of the funnel is not only to pick up the pieces that remain and have them be Level 1's, but to have fun watching unlucky peasants get destroyed in all sorts of ways!

Exactly. And it’s not a story-less meat grinder. It’s used to build story. In games like those whatever story there is is what happens during play. So you start with not only a background, but a story to tell about how you survived and leveled up.

 

[Xetheral]

Or, you know, simply accept that it actually is a game and as such accept that the game will feature ”gamist“ elements. I never really understood the need to pretend we’re not playing a game whilst actually playing a game.

Personally speaking, it's because I have more fun when I'm less consciously focused on the game mechanics than I am focused on trying to imagine the fiction from my character's perspective. The more the mechanics feel like an abstraction of a self-consistent game world, the easier I find it to not focus on them consciously, even though I never completely forget that they're there. By contrast, jarring mechanics tend to demand my conscious attention, like a pebble in my shoe.

 

[overgeeked]

Personally speaking, it's because I have more fun when I'm less consciously focused on the game mechanics than I am focused on trying to imagine the fiction from my character's perspective. The more the mechanics feel like an abstraction of a self-consistent game world, the easier I find it to not focus on them consciously, even though I never completely forget that they're there. By contrast, jarring mechanics tend to demand my conscious attention, like a pebble in my shoe.

Sure. I’m basically the same. I prefer the mechanics to get out of the way or fade into the background as much as possible. But any time there’s a roll, I’m keenly aware that I’m sitting at a table playing a game. Any time the mechanics defy common sense, I’m keenly aware that I’m sitting at a table playing a game. So rather than fight it or try to pretend otherwise, simply accept it for what it is and move on.

 

[Mordhau]

Most OSR games use more B/X style modifiers which generally make ability scores a far smaller piece of the puzzle. 3d6 in order matters a lot less with the following sort of table (taken from Worlds Without Number):

• 3 /-2
• 4-7/-1
• 8-13/0
• 14-17/+1
• 18/+2

Ability Scores generally matter a good deal more in the modern game than they ever have, especially in 5e with bounded accuracy.

That's not the B/X modifier scale. Kevin Crawford uses a slightly different scale which minimues ability scores even more. B/X modifiers are somewhere between that and modern D&D. They go up to +3 at 18.

Edit: Ninja'd

 

[Mordhau]

I've seen people insist on rolling 3d6 in order for AD&D 1e, even though that's not even one of the many suggested methods for character creation in the DMG.

It gets really rather absurd when the random method being used generates characters that don't actually qualify for any character class (which I've seen multiple times).

 

[FireLance]

Ultimately....I don't really know if there is a true solution to this problem. It very much seems like the two desired things--effective characters and easily-generated, truly random characters--are truly at odds. Being effective generally means falling in a certain range of power. Being truly random requires not falling in any particular range of power. Trimming the randomness to guarantee some competence either sacrifices simplicity and ease of use, or breaks the feeling of randomness, or (often) both.

One possibility that I've been toying with, although I admit I've never actually used in any of the campaigns I've run, is to start with the standard array (15, 14, 13, 12, 10, 8), assign as desired to the various ability scores, and then roll 3d6 in order. If the number rolled for an ability score is higher than the assigned number, use the rolled number instead.

The standard array guarantees the baseline level of competence that the game expects, and the 3d6 rolled in order gives a chance that one or more ability scores may be improved - and not necessarily the ability scores that the player would have chosen.

Of course, the downside to this approach is that the PCs will have better ability scores, on average, than the game expects and the standard challenges will be that much easier for them.

 

[Campbell]

Getting back to the main topic I do not think Wizards should look back at previous versions either with an eye to avoid or bring back particular sorts of mechanics. There is such a vast number of new players who have no experience with previous versions of the game. They should listen to what those players want, come up with designs, and test them. Us old heads are not particularly relevant (whether we like 4e or not).

 

[overgeeked]

Getting back to the main topic I do not think Wizards should look back at previous versions either with an eye to avoid or bring back particular sorts of mechanics. There is such a vast number of new players who have no experience with previous versions of the game. They should listen to what those players want, come up with designs, and test them. Us old heads are not particularly relevant (whether we like 4e or not).

My money spends just as well as some new fan. WotC clearly recognizes that otherwise they wouldn’t be catering to us olds as they have been. The long haul fans will still be here when this recent wave of fad players have left. If WotC caters only to the fad, then the game/edition will die when they leave. And WotC will have to go back to catering to long haul fans and revise/make a new edition. Easier to just not throw the baby out with the bathwater.

 

[Aldarc]

My money spends just as well as some new fan. WotC clearly recognizes that otherwise they wouldn’t be catering to us olds as they have been. The long haul fans will still be here when this recent wave of fad players have left.

I don't think that WotC has been catering to old fans at all: not since the D&D Next Playtest when they were courting the Pathfinder and OSR crowds. Since then though? It seems mostly oriented towards the Critical Role crowd and the newcomers.