4e (DnD: Tactics) remake wish list.
- Thread starter mellored
- Start date
If you want to completely erase the meaning and purpose of roles, sure I guess.
Math fixes. Feats and powers pared down (trap options eliminated entirely and taxes given for free). Original classes redesigned along the lines of the good essentials classes (gaining additional features at higher levels while still adhering to AEDU structure). Essentials classes without AEDU reworked to use AEDU. Essentials classes without hybrid options given hybrid options.
mellored
Hero
So... have 4 classes then?
What about the different ability scores?
That's the thing most people forgot.
You get 80% of your role from your class for defenders, leaders, and strikers. Only controllers are based on powers.
If your rogue took all fighter powers, they'd still be a bad defender since your mark and toughness comes from the class.
So why bother?
Reduce power bloat.
A lot of 4e's valid criticism stem from it forcing every class to have their own set of powers and a different set of powers for each build.
If classes within the same source shared powers, a lot of the redundant, fiddly, and bad powers could be cut. This would have allowed for more emphasis on race and class features, more interesting builds, easier onboarding, and faster appearances of new classes and races.
Ugh, no. This is best done by cutting bad powers not diluting class identity. There is zero reason for a rogue or warlord to ever take the fighter's Come and Get It, and giving the fighter access to something like Startling Offensive would be a balance nightmare.
Frankly this reads like a suggestion from someone who fundamentally doesn't understand the game.
mellored
Hero
No. 80% of your power was feats and equipment.
For instance. I made a wizard who only uses basic attacks with a 2 hander.
D&D 4E - Mellored's Char-Op Builds
The Retaliator Doing as much damage when hit as possible. If she hits someone with hellish rebuke, and that creature makes a melee attack which (dazed, dominates, or deals psycic damage) and reduces her to 0 or fewer... 30 thunder (Stormhawk Vengeance) 8 fire (white lotus riposte) 17 (Quori...
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That said, I'm perfectly fine if they reduce the effect of magic items. Needing to upgrade your sword 6 time is a bit ridiculous. Get rid of most +'s from feats is good too.
Really, deflate all the numbers.
mellored
Hero
There is definitely overlap and some things could be consolidated. But I don't think it should be wide open.
Having a martial "hit and run" power would be fine for sharing.
But "stay hidden on a miss" should be rogue only power.
I said role not power.No. 80% of your power was feats and equipment.
For instance. I made a wizard who only uses basic attacks with a 2 hander.
D&D 4E - Mellored's Char-Op Builds
The Retaliator Doing as much damage when hit as possible. If she hits someone with hellish rebuke, and that creature makes a melee attack which (dazed, dominates, or deals psycic damage) and reduces her to 0 or fewer... 30 thunder (Stormhawk Vengeance) 8 fire (white lotus riposte) 17 (Quori...
That said, I'm perfectly fine if they reduce the effect of magic items. Needing to upgrade your sword 6 time is a bit ridiculous. Get rid of most +'s from feats is good too.
Really, deflate all the numbers.
Defenders got their main marks from their class.
Strikers got their damage bonus from classes.
Leaders got their main heal from class.
Letting the fighter take a ranged weapon attack and a tactical move or letting warlocks, sorcerers, and wizards all have fireball wouldn't change their roles.
It would be the best of 5e and 4e combined.
Blue
Ravenous Bugblatter Beast of Traal
Have dedicated power lists for non-combat pillars. Don't try to mix with Utility powers. This also helps address the players who didn't like 4e because "it was only about combat". I don't care if they are by class, by power source, or if there is even a selection of out-of-combat classes you pick as well as your combat class, or something else.
Fix the math on Skill Challenges, and then integrate them more into play so they are a commonly used tool that comes up a couple times a session.
Mid paragon and higher some players ended up spending forever reviewing their power list. Because combat is so dynamic (a good thing) they couldn't planb as much during others turns, and they needed to reread each power because they all did related but different things. "What's the AoE on this one, will that get who I want", etc. Figure out some way to more standardize within a particular character to cut down on the decision paralysis.
We used Alea Tools, colored and labelled magnetic bases, to show conditions. We often had minis that had so many conditions that the magnet bases by themselves were taller then a normal mini. That's just too much. Reduce the number of conditions. Perhaps by making some combine into nastier conditions. And generalizing some very narrow conditions.
Don't protect the niches quite as much. Have that it's possible to kill something without every combat being a grind if you don't have a striker, etc.
Fix the math on Skill Challenges, and then integrate them more into play so they are a commonly used tool that comes up a couple times a session.
Mid paragon and higher some players ended up spending forever reviewing their power list. Because combat is so dynamic (a good thing) they couldn't planb as much during others turns, and they needed to reread each power because they all did related but different things. "What's the AoE on this one, will that get who I want", etc. Figure out some way to more standardize within a particular character to cut down on the decision paralysis.
We used Alea Tools, colored and labelled magnetic bases, to show conditions. We often had minis that had so many conditions that the magnet bases by themselves were taller then a normal mini. That's just too much. Reduce the number of conditions. Perhaps by making some combine into nastier conditions. And generalizing some very narrow conditions.
Don't protect the niches quite as much. Have that it's possible to kill something without every combat being a grind if you don't have a striker, etc.
No you didn't.
How would this work with non-psionic classes taking augmentable powers?
How would this work with different primary stats? What's the point of my fighter grabbing a battlemind power if I need constitution to hit with it?
This undermines the point of multiclass feats and hybrid classes. I don't like it.
aco175
Legend
Find a way to change the magic items so it did not need to have a +2 weapon at 6th level and +3 at 11th. I like magic and giving out weapons and having them have cool powers. I also like to find a way to boost them once or so in a campaign, but the need to make it a core thing can be changed.
I would also add more powers to the classes, mostly at lower levels and some can even overlap to other classes. Most classes got three top choose from and it tended to have one cool one and one never one unless you have a select build. It tended to make most fighters or rogues the same.
I would also add more powers to the classes, mostly at lower levels and some can even overlap to other classes. Most classes got three top choose from and it tended to have one cool one and one never one unless you have a select build. It tended to make most fighters or rogues the same.
mellored
Hero
Letting a defender mark at range, or in an AoE is a bit different than marking in melee.
But overall, I mostly agree. There is a lot of powers that could be shared.
But also many that shouldn't.
I would definitely want bounded accuracy in 4e.
That would eliminate the need for having boss, regular, and minion versions of the same monster.
I said 80% of your role comes from the classes.
A rogue who takes all fighter powers would not be an effective defender but still be a decent striker.
The idea is that every class would get 1 or 2 primary scores and their powers in their power source would use that ability mod.
So a Fighter and Rogue could both take Twin Strike. But the Fighters would roll STR and be able to mark via Combat Superiority whereas the Rogue would roll Dex and deal 2d6 extra Sneak Attack damage.
A Fighter would not be able to take Battlemind powers without multiclassing as Fighter is Martial.
mellored
Hero
Oh yea. Utilities powers should be actual utility powers.
Not defense powers.
One thing I would take from Pathfinder 2e, is conditions with numbers.
I.e. you can be clumsy 3.
doctorbadwolf
Heretic of The Seventh Circle
Bonded accuracy, fewer feats with tiny fiddly little bonuses.
Clean up all the feat taxes remaining after the above.
Change MC to allow power swapping if you have any MC feat, and introduce follow up MC feats that give you more of the second classes shtick.
You can use a given power more than once.
Each class has options built in to forgo encounter or daily powers in exchange for something simple and “always on”, or a simplistic power they can just use over and over.
Reduce monster HP and general HP and damage bloat.
Make implements more like weapons, with each having damage dice and other properties, so that using a wand is different from using a tome. Also put tome as an implement from the start.
Allow power scaling in place of higher level power swapping.
Clean up all the feat taxes remaining after the above.
Change MC to allow power swapping if you have any MC feat, and introduce follow up MC feats that give you more of the second classes shtick.
You can use a given power more than once.
Each class has options built in to forgo encounter or daily powers in exchange for something simple and “always on”, or a simplistic power they can just use over and over.
Reduce monster HP and general HP and damage bloat.
Make implements more like weapons, with each having damage dice and other properties, so that using a wand is different from using a tome. Also put tome as an implement from the start.
Allow power scaling in place of higher level power swapping.
doctorbadwolf
Heretic of The Seventh Circle
Oh, another;
Each class should dn feature at level 11 and 21. To help accent the features of the class.
Each class should dn feature at level 11 and 21. To help accent the features of the class.
mellored
Hero
On one hand, I like that you had to use different powers. Spamming the same thing gets boring.
On the other, having some simple options is good too.
Otherwise I agree.
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