4e Heroic Souls (FULL/CLOSED - accepting alts)
- Thread starter Graf
- Start date
Graf
Explorer
To put it another way: We're sort of in the "prologue". This is like that weird first chapter you see in a fantasy novel. I understand it's a concern about character self-control, or that I'm trying to limit your options. I'm not.
Regarding some of the stuff: like the fixer having a stutter... it's just an easy way to hang something out there. So if you get a vision in the future and not-Karothen is stuttering, you know who it is. A lot easier than trying to remember three syllable fantasy-names.
If you want to ruin (a small part) of the story for yourself here's a bit more about the whole "predestination" thing (you'll find out about it soon in character).
[sblock="Predestination"]This is (though I didn't realize it until recently) very much ripped off from Torment. It's not the same (in some way's its the opposite), but it has a lot of the same story effects.
I should say that while this stuff has been floating around in my head this is really the first time I think I've typed it out per se. So it may change, but this is where I'm coming from.
The old world (before the events of 100 years ago)
Basically the heroic souls have this sort of inner gravity, they tend to create patterns around themselves. The trick is that that the heroic souls had a lot of gravity, and were basically the only things that mattered. Mattered in the sense that people with heroic souls are usually paragon tier and frequently epic tier almost instantly. So they tend to get stuck in semi-constant patterns that were formed some long time ago. The original Jeillia and Eldan were siblings (twins probably) so their HS's tend to appear together. Karothen's HS was pulled toward Jeillia's (maybe they loved each other during the first incaration?) but somehow he got "stuck"; now the soul is always pulled toward her.
The passions of the Heroic Soul are generally proportional to it's power level (generally enough to overwhelm anyone they possess, who by definition is heroic tier or so prior to the incarnation).
So being an HS is totally awesome (you're vastly powerful) and sorta sucks (you're trapped in this sort of "pattern"). The PCs are pretty decent actually. I think that some of the other (NPC) HS' have totally craptacular patterns.
Some of the backstory I have sketched out has to do with what happens when you take people and force them to play out the same story over and over again.
The Magus is one example (suicide by angel). This has a bit of an echo in the daze actually (note that silent's character also tries to escape by committing suicide).
The new age
The PCs "incarnate/awaken" but they're only 1st level. The stirrings of their heroic souls are muted. So, for the first time in a looooong time they're not trapped in patterns. Of course they have "old relationships" which people can react to. Someone who has a thousand year old grievance (and was fated to never win) suddenly can. Even if they aren't "forced" to do track down their old nemesis and even the score that doesn't mean they won't identify with the Old-them and try to do it (or prove they're better than the Old-them).
Likewise some HSs may wind up incarnating into people who they don't match up with so you might get some very strong divergences. I think.
(Have I mentioned I really liked Torment? -- I did.)
The Magus/angel stuff is a bit off the wall, but I was just playing around with two questions.
1. Why does Jeillia think it's so important that Karothen have this little idol (obviously it had to represent something)?
2. Why do HSs suddenly come back now?
-- If the Magus (who I see as a sort of Raistlin figure) deliberately left the world 300 years ago and is connected to an angel (and one whose portfolio is that of opening things) it makes sense that he could "incarnate anew" and in the process "jump start" the whole awakening process again.
I hadn't been too worried about this when the game began, but once I saw the possibility I figured "why not?". It strengthens the narrative and "foregrounds" one of the PCs.
[/sblock]
The cliff's note version is that I'm not trying to "tie people's hands" but I do want to have them have some sort of hooks into the world.
Since I can't give you anything about nations or racial backgrounds or religions or anything else the best I could do (I thought) was build relationships.
That's why I was asking for people you have connections to/emotions about. But I think that people got a bit confused (or it was too meta/weird) and nobody really responded. So I figured I'd work up a few to show what I'm talking about.
In my 'ideal' world you'll meet new PCs or (very occasionally) other NPC HSs and have this sort of "flashback" thing where everyone (or a few people) remember stories, maybe the same story, maybe different stories about meeting that person in the past.
So even though I'm controlling the "present reality" you'll continue to influence the story after we get out of the "starting zone".
Regarding some of the stuff: like the fixer having a stutter... it's just an easy way to hang something out there. So if you get a vision in the future and not-Karothen is stuttering, you know who it is. A lot easier than trying to remember three syllable fantasy-names.
If you want to ruin (a small part) of the story for yourself here's a bit more about the whole "predestination" thing (you'll find out about it soon in character).
[sblock="Predestination"]This is (though I didn't realize it until recently) very much ripped off from Torment. It's not the same (in some way's its the opposite), but it has a lot of the same story effects.
I should say that while this stuff has been floating around in my head this is really the first time I think I've typed it out per se. So it may change, but this is where I'm coming from.
The old world (before the events of 100 years ago)
Basically the heroic souls have this sort of inner gravity, they tend to create patterns around themselves. The trick is that that the heroic souls had a lot of gravity, and were basically the only things that mattered. Mattered in the sense that people with heroic souls are usually paragon tier and frequently epic tier almost instantly. So they tend to get stuck in semi-constant patterns that were formed some long time ago. The original Jeillia and Eldan were siblings (twins probably) so their HS's tend to appear together. Karothen's HS was pulled toward Jeillia's (maybe they loved each other during the first incaration?) but somehow he got "stuck"; now the soul is always pulled toward her.
The passions of the Heroic Soul are generally proportional to it's power level (generally enough to overwhelm anyone they possess, who by definition is heroic tier or so prior to the incarnation).
So being an HS is totally awesome (you're vastly powerful) and sorta sucks (you're trapped in this sort of "pattern"). The PCs are pretty decent actually. I think that some of the other (NPC) HS' have totally craptacular patterns.
Some of the backstory I have sketched out has to do with what happens when you take people and force them to play out the same story over and over again.
The Magus is one example (suicide by angel). This has a bit of an echo in the daze actually (note that silent's character also tries to escape by committing suicide).
The new age
The PCs "incarnate/awaken" but they're only 1st level. The stirrings of their heroic souls are muted. So, for the first time in a looooong time they're not trapped in patterns. Of course they have "old relationships" which people can react to. Someone who has a thousand year old grievance (and was fated to never win) suddenly can. Even if they aren't "forced" to do track down their old nemesis and even the score that doesn't mean they won't identify with the Old-them and try to do it (or prove they're better than the Old-them).
Likewise some HSs may wind up incarnating into people who they don't match up with so you might get some very strong divergences. I think.
(Have I mentioned I really liked Torment? -- I did.)
The Magus/angel stuff is a bit off the wall, but I was just playing around with two questions.
1. Why does Jeillia think it's so important that Karothen have this little idol (obviously it had to represent something)?
2. Why do HSs suddenly come back now?
-- If the Magus (who I see as a sort of Raistlin figure) deliberately left the world 300 years ago and is connected to an angel (and one whose portfolio is that of opening things) it makes sense that he could "incarnate anew" and in the process "jump start" the whole awakening process again.
I hadn't been too worried about this when the game began, but once I saw the possibility I figured "why not?". It strengthens the narrative and "foregrounds" one of the PCs.
[/sblock]
The cliff's note version is that I'm not trying to "tie people's hands" but I do want to have them have some sort of hooks into the world.
Since I can't give you anything about nations or racial backgrounds or religions or anything else the best I could do (I thought) was build relationships.
That's why I was asking for people you have connections to/emotions about. But I think that people got a bit confused (or it was too meta/weird) and nobody really responded. So I figured I'd work up a few to show what I'm talking about.
In my 'ideal' world you'll meet new PCs or (very occasionally) other NPC HSs and have this sort of "flashback" thing where everyone (or a few people) remember stories, maybe the same story, maybe different stories about meeting that person in the past.
So even though I'm controlling the "present reality" you'll continue to influence the story after we get out of the "starting zone".
Graf
Explorer
The divergence between the fixer (a bit of a wimp) and the Magus (I'm toying with the idea that he's the only wizard to have been 30th level; and that prior to that incarnation Karothen's heroic soul was on the weak side) was also supposed to show that you're not your heroic soul, and that even in the past specific instances of heroic souls were different (though in somewhat superficial ways).
Ditto the Jeillia divergences (though I'm toying around with the idea that she was connected with the divine in some way that made her somewhat different than other HSs). Not sure at all yet.
Eldan's HS diverged a bit less. That wasn't particularly intentional; but
Ditto the Jeillia divergences (though I'm toying around with the idea that she was connected with the divine in some way that made her somewhat different than other HSs). Not sure at all yet.
Eldan's HS diverged a bit less. That wasn't particularly intentional; but
the fact that a past-Eldan freaked out when he thought he was being betrayed and his men were all killed and killed the fixer without thinking it through doesn't mean that Eldan would freak out and kill somebody.
Of course, if he did... then Jennia was manipulating him to do so. Which doesn't necessarily excuse it, but it does get to the question of how manipulative her HS was/is.
Of course, if he did... then Jennia was manipulating him to do so. Which doesn't necessarily excuse it, but it does get to the question of how manipulative her HS was/is.
Graf
Explorer
@silent Any ideas yet?
Instead of the "you committed suicide by jumping off the tower and woke up somewhere" how about:
You tried to jump off and, as you were falling, awoke and pulled off some sort of near impossible acrobatic stunt (kicking off the wall and dive rolling onto a nearby building).
I'd want this to happen at night, if that's possible.
There are a couple of building possibilities:
I'm thinking the last is the most interesting, but pick one you like, or come up with something different.
Instead of the "you committed suicide by jumping off the tower and woke up somewhere" how about:
You tried to jump off and, as you were falling, awoke and pulled off some sort of near impossible acrobatic stunt (kicking off the wall and dive rolling onto a nearby building).
I'd want this to happen at night, if that's possible.
There are a couple of building possibilities:
- The building with the stained glass
- The growers dome (there's supposed to be nothing around it).
- There could be a big black tower, with window sills but no windows, next to the growers dome (maybe 5 stories high?), you could have jumped off that and rolled to the growers dome.
I'm thinking the last is the most interesting, but pick one you like, or come up with something different.
silentounce
First Post
Graf said:
Ok, do you want me to go into the RP thread with this?
I definitely don't think you're trying to tie our hands or control out characters, and I think the convergence of stories is a fascinating idea. My concern is that it might have the unintentional effect of feeling like too much of our future is written. I guess the possibility then exists for us to be focused on making sure the past isn't repeated, but that often turns out to be futile struggle, at least in literature.
Regardless, I'm all for playing along and seeing where it takes us. I only said something because you asked our ideas regarding the castle scene. I'm good with playing Eldan's role in the repeating struggle of the pattern, as long as there's a chance for us to change things.
Regardless, I'm all for playing along and seeing where it takes us. I only said something because you asked our ideas regarding the castle scene. I'm good with playing Eldan's role in the repeating struggle of the pattern, as long as there's a chance for us to change things.
Graf
Explorer
I 100% guarantee that you'll be able to change things.
What happens in the present will totally be up to you (beyond stuff like you can't up to the flying castle yet because you can't fly).
And if something in the past bothers you then I'll change it too. I liked the stutter for the fixer, but if it's better that Karothen's past lives are fearful types then we can do it that way too.
What happens in the present will totally be up to you (beyond stuff like you can't up to the flying castle yet because you can't fly).
And if something in the past bothers you then I'll change it too. I liked the stutter for the fixer, but if it's better that Karothen's past lives are fearful types then we can do it that way too.
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