5 Fighter Archetypes

[Connorsrpg]

[MENTION=6762655]transcendantviewer[/MENTION]. But the Fortune Fighter already has maneuvers and a mechanic to trigger them? How would also adding another mechanic on top make this class easier.

I am not sure that you are getting the relationship with the Lucky feat and the FF's maneuvers. Luck points WITH this archetype's features already have a unique relationship as your maneuver depends upon what you roll and luck points let you roll again. This is where the two interplay an LOT more than other PCs with just the feat.

 

[transcendantviewer]

This would be a replacement to your mechanic. It'd be similar to the Battle Master, but at the same time, feel quite different and be much more streamlined than having to worry about what the die roll actually was. I suppose I just gravitate more towards the "Simplicity is king" aspect of 5. You seem to gravitate more towards the "Create what you want but make it balanced" aspect. Which I support, but making things feel more complicated than necessary just starts to bog things down, and just reading this, I can tell that it's more complicated than it should be. I had trouble grasping what it did at first, that's how you know it's too complicated.

 

[Moorcrys]

I think the complexity is within the boundaries of the subclass and not overly complicated in any case - the player will be invested in the mechanic because they chose it beforehand, like a sorcerer or monk. And if you've ever played 13th age, it's pretty intuitive once you've done it for a combat or two.

I think it's great for a luck-based fighter - you're counting on the die roll to smile upon you! What could be more luck-based than that?

 

[Connorsrpg]

[MENTION=6762655]transcendantviewer[/MENTION]. Um, you seem to have summed up my view of 5E completely wrong actually. I just love creating stuff and messing with stuff and I LOVE that 5E has a simple chassis on which to build (and build).

Funnily enough - I care very little for balance (*see below). I try things b/c they are fun (or at least it sounds like fun), a player suggests an option they would like to try, or just b/c I can. Unfortunately, I am not the most creative person and a lot of what I do relies upon conversions of other material. In this case, the 13th Age fighter. Clearly, you have not read/played 13th Age. Their fighter is the reason for this fighter. I merely created it for people that liked the 13th Age fighter. (Have I made that point clear ). Phew.

On simplicity, I see your point, so I would have that person (such as yourself) steer clear of the Fortune Fighter. It is not for you.

And, I am not sure I still 'grasp' exactly what you are inferring to replace and exactly what with, so does that mean your version is too complex From what I can understand, it is something like the bard mechanic - which to me is the bard's shtick and more complicated than the Lucky feat. I chose the feat to be simple, as opposed to adding complexity through another luck mechanic. Also, with bounded accuracy, adding and subtracting d6's would be pretty big.

Anyway, perhaps you have an idea now for a simple luck fighter. (The Champion version as opposed to my BM version ). I would be glad to see that alongside this one. But I am sticking with my 13th Age - inspired FF for now for players that like the mechanic. Obviously some don't and that is cool - maybe time to look at the other archetypes.

[MENTION=7814]Moorcrys[/MENTION]. Thanks again - you see where I am coming from. And not analysing my 'thoughts of D&D, 5E, diet etc" based upon a few (or 1) archetype I have written.

* On Balance: Ask my players - I take very little note of balance. I try and go with what suits and what's cool. Now, of course, that can vary widely from table to table and player to player and GMs vary widely. I am very inclined to try anything at my table. Chec out our Races for eg. HOWEVER, when writing for a wider community (and I did open these fighter archetypes up for scrutiny), I do draw on years of experience and a solid understanding of the current rules to try and balance things as best as possible - that is why I as ENWorlders to go over these But at my table, I am happy to try most things. I choose cool factor and fun over rules. And 5E having a simple core does help with that

Anyone - by all means take a look around our website. You will see I have written a lot of other stuff. We have incorporated a lot of ideas from previous editions and other games, unashamedly. It some cases they make things more complex, in others we are looking at simplicity. But where some my find things like weapon groups or crit charts complex, we don't as we have always used them, so?

 

[Connorsrpg]

Oh, and I wouldn't go with not understanding something after reading once, as too complex. Wow. I still have to keep looking up rules. I certainly had to read the superiority dice thing for BMs more than once. Wild shape anyone? The thing is does it make sense once you have read it and understood it. Not whether it gelled the first time. That's how I see things anyway.

Ah damn! Now I am philosophising ... Back to the archetyeS.

 

[transcendantviewer]

To each their own, I always say. I won't use your homebrew at my table, but I can understand where you're coming from. I've gotten negative feedback on my homebrews, but I'm alright with it. Sorry if I came off preachy.

 

[Connorsrpg]

[MENTION=6762655]transcendantviewer[/MENTION]. Oh, I am okay with it too. I really appreciate you having a look and offering ideas. I would just prefer for people to keep it about those ideas, not perceived philosophies etc. Speaking of which, I still don't follow exactly what you mean. I think communicating through boards does not help. I bet if we were to sit down together we would probably 'see' what each other means and why we have done so.

As stated many times - for me the mechanic is core to this version of the FF, as I have specifically and deliberately followed 13th Age (so I can't even really take credit for the criticism of designing a class this way ). Have you seen/played the 13th Age fighter? If not and if this does not sound fun (for you and players), then you are right to ignore.

However, I am still interested in your idea for a simpler version. I just haven't quite gotten that yet. Basically, what exactly would you remove and what exactly would you replace it with? Tone here is not condescending, I am honestly interested. You may be on to something here. As stated in that other forum, there may well be a need for simple and complex versions of some archetypes for the fighter. If you have a luck-styled fighter without the flexible maneuvers mechanic, I am interested. I do like simplicity too (This FF is for those that like the mechanic, but there are other ways to do 'ideas and archetypes'). Essentially I have 4 Battle Master complexity subclasses and only 1 Champion level one, so the ledger is a little uneven there . Though this is b/c a couple of those I designed specifically for a player or idea we liked. Does not necessarily represent the wider community (obviously ). But they are there to connect with specific players. Moving on...

I am always interested in other ways to do things and I would be more than willing to try other archetypes at my table if that is what the players want to try. With the proviso that we might have to adjust on the fly of course.

So please, I am not dismissing your ideas regarding this archetype/idea. I just haven't quite understood exactly how it would look.

Oh, and given your interest, I wonder if others have sparked any ideas. If you want and like simple archetypes, scroll to the bottom and look at the Warmain. It, admittedly, it the only one without its own 'new mechanic', though the duelist one is relatively simple to, it is still an 'add-on' mechanic. Anyway, the Warmain does not really have one. Given your persistence and patience to go back and forth on one archetype, I am interested in your thoughts on it.

Peace and cheers, C

 

[transcendantviewer]

Well, my original build was to impose lasting effects upon targets when scoring a critical hit, however, any Champion Fighter with a few Variant rules could accomplish that. My other idea, which was what I called the "Archetype of the Malefactor" functioned bu having a pool of "Misfortune Dice" that they could expend whenever they wished. The Misfortune Dice required no action at all to expend, just like a Luck Point from the Lucky Feat, but they were limited to applying only one penalty to a target's roll at a time. The Misfortune Dice were d6s and you'd expend one and roll the d6. The number rolled would be applied as a penalty to the target's check. The first feature was to allow the Malefactor to apply Misfortune Dice only to target's Attack Rolls and Ability checks. Then, as they gained Archetype Features, the ability to apply penalties to the target's Armor class until the end of your next turn comes up, the ability to penalize saving throws at very high levels, and even the option of effectively "Stealing" the target's luck and making use of it yourself. You'd gain a bonus equal to the penalty you rolled on your next ability check, attack roll, saving throw, or to your Armor Class until the start of your next turn.

 

[transcendantviewer]

If I still have the archetype saved, I'll pull it up for you. It was relatively simple.

 

[transcendantviewer]

Here's the archetype I made way back when.

Archetype of the Malefactor
As an archetypal Malefactor, you have spent years learning the cues of chance, skewing true randomness to punish your foes and benefitting from their misfortune. Those that learn from this dip into a pool of arcane knowledge that is decidedly malevolent.

Misfortune
When you choose this archetype at 3rd level, you learn to augment your martial prowess with the ability to manipulate chance, using special dice called Misfortune Dice.

Misfortune Dice. You have two Misfortune Dice, which are d4s. A Misfortune Die is expended when you use it. You regain all expended Misfortune dice when you complete a long rest. When you expend a Misfortune Die, you roll a d4 and apply the result as a penalty to any ability check, attack roll, or damage roll of your choice. You may only apply one Misfortune Die to any one effect. You must roll a Misfortune Die before you know the outcome to gain its benefit.

Every 2 Fighter levels after 3rd, you gain another Misfortune Die.

Luck Stealer. Whenever you expend a Misfortune Die, you can choose to take the same number rolled as a penalty and use it to your advantage. After doing so, a single roll that you make in the next minute gains a bonus equal to the number rolled on the Misfortune Die. You can use this ability a number of times per day equal to your Intelligence Modifier. Once you have expended your daily allotted amount of uses of this feature, you cannot do so again until you finish a long rest.
Deadly Misstep
Starting at 7th level, you have learned to use your powers of fortune manipulation to stumble enemies and potentially ruin their defenses. You may expend a Misfortune Die and apply the number rolled as a penalty to a target’s Armor Class until the start of your next turn.

Tribulating Intervention
Starting at 10th level, you learn to tweak fortune in more subtle ways. Whenever a Critical Hit is scored, you may expend a Misfortune Die to force the attack to instead deal normal damage, but you cannot prevent the attack from hitting.

Dismal Failure
Starting at 15th level, you acquire the ability to alter your opponent’s fortunes in the direst of situations. You can now apply Misfortune Dice to a target’s saving throws.

Master Malefactor
When you attain 18th level, you have unlocked the final secrets of manipulating other’s fortunes. Whenever you expend a Misfortune Die, you may spend an additional die to have the penalty persist for an additional two turns, ending at the beginning of your turn.