Casimir Liber
Adventurer
Ok - happy to drop tetraplegia. Like the idea of legendary actions. So drop gore and stomp slighlty to 4d10+9 damage each you reckon?
5E: Converting Monsters from White Dwarf Magazine for Fifth Edition
Cleon
Legend
Yes, that could work. We can increase the Tail / Breath Weapon / Trample Damage slightly to get the increase to the DPR.
Let's see…
Damage #2 ("average" DPR for Challenge 20)
Round 1 (62 average): Trampling Charge Gore [31 (4d10+9)] plus Stomp [31 (4d10+9)]
Round 2 (50½ average): Multiattack Gore [31 (4d10+9)] plus Tail or Trunk (19½?)
Round 3 (51 average): Breath Weapon (25½×2 AoE?) or Trample Path (25½×2 AoE?)
Legendary Actions (+25½ DPR): [8½ damage per Action?]
=>
⅓(62+50½+51) + 25½ = 54½+25½ = 80 DPR
According to the CR Calculator, we can go up to 86 DPR, so we could increase the Legendary Actions damage by 2 per action (i.e. 3d6 damage for single action). without spilling into CR 21 territory:
Damage #3 (Challenge 20 with DPR maxed)
Round 1 (62 average): Trampling Charge Gore [31 (4d10+9)] plus Stomp [31 (4d10+9)]
Round 2 (50½ average): Multiattack Gore [31 (4d10+9)] plus Tail or Trunk (19½?)
Round 3 (51 average): Breath Weapon (25½ AoE?) or Trample Path (25½ AoE?)
Legendary Actions (+31½ DPR): [10½ damage per Action?]
=>
⅓(62+50½+51) + 31½ = 54½+31½ = 86 DPR
or not go all the way to the max DPR and divide the extra points between the Legendaries and Round #2 and #3 a bit, say:
Damage #4 (Challenge 20 just shy of max DPR)
Round 1 (62 average): Trampling Charge Gore [31 (4d10+9)] plus Stomp [31 (4d10+9)]
Round 2 (52 average): Multiattack Gore [31 (4d10+9)] plus Tail or Trunk (21?)
Round 3 (54 average): Breath Weapon (27 AoE?) or Trample Path (27 AoE?)
Legendary Actions (+27 DPR): [9 damage per Action?]
=>
⅓(62+52+54) + 27 = 56+27 = 83 DPR
Or we can bump up the offensive abilities another notch and make it Challenge 21, which would allow a DPR of 87 to 92.
Damage #5 (Challenge 21 with average DPR)
Round 1 (62 average): Trampling Charge Gore [31 (4d10+9)] plus Stomp [31 (4d10+9)]
Round 2 (50½ average): Multiattack Gore [31 (4d10+9)] plus Tail or Trunk (19½?)
Round 3 (63 average): Breath Weapon (31½ AoE?) or Trample Path (31½ AoE?)
Legendary Actions (+31½ DPR): [10½ damage per Action?]
=>
⅓(62+50½+63) + 31½ = 58½+31½ = 90 DPR
Damage #6 (Challenge 21, average DPR with Triple Multiattack)
Round 1 (62 average): Trampling Charge Gore [31 (4d10+9)] plus Stomp [31 (4d10+9)]
Round 2 (64 average): Multiattack Gore [31 (4d10+9)] plus Tail (16½?) plus Trunk (16½?)
Round 3 (63 average): Breath Weapon (31½ AoE?) or Trample Path (31½ AoE?)
Legendary Actions (+27 DPR): [9½ damage per Action?]
=>
⅓(62+64+63) + 27 = 63+27 = 90 DPR
Damage #7 (Challenge 21 with DPR maxed)
Round 1 (62 average): Trampling Charge Gore [31 (4d10+9)] plus Stomp [31 (4d10+9)]
Round 2 (56½ average): Multiattack Gore [31 (4d10+9)] plus Tail or Trunk [25½?]
Round 3 (63 average): Breath Weapon [31½ (7d8) AoE?] or Trample Path [31½ (5d8+9)? AoE]
Legendary Actions (+31½ DPR): [10½ damage per Action?]
=>
⅓(62+56½+63) + 31½ = 60½+31½ = 92 DPR
What's your preference?
It would easier just setting what damage it does and find out what Challenge Rating comes out from that rather than doing it backwards with a target CR.
It's no big deal if the Challenge goes further up into the 20s, it is supposed to be an Epic Monster, after all!
Cleon
Legend
Hell, let's try that.
I'll aim for more of an Ancient Dragon level opponent than the Adult Dragon we were using, since it didn't quite work out.
How about:
Damage #8 (reverse-engineering from DPR)
Round 1 (84 average): Trampling Charge Gore [42 (4d12+16)] plus Stomp [42 (6d10+9)]
Round 2 (84 average): Multiattack Gore [42] OR Stomp [42] PLUS Tail [~21?] AND Trunk [~21?]
Round 3 (84 average): Breath Weapon [42 (12d6 or 4d10?) AoE?] or Trample Path [42 (6d10+9) AoE]
Legendary Actions (×3)(+31½ DPR): single action Toss [3d6 (10½)]; double action Tail or Trunk [~21?]; triple actions Lightning Trident [9d6 (31½)?] or Earthshaking Bellow [?? 1d12+9 (15½) sonic AoE ??]
=>⅓(84+84+84) + 31½ = 84+31½ = 115½ DPR
Round 1 (84 average): Trampling Charge Gore [42 (4d12+16)] plus Stomp [42 (6d10+9)]
Round 2 (84 average): Multiattack Gore [42] OR Stomp [42] PLUS Tail [~21?] AND Trunk [~21?]
Round 3 (84 average): Breath Weapon [42 (12d6 or 4d10?) AoE?] or Trample Path [42 (6d10+9) AoE]
Legendary Actions (×3)(+31½ DPR): single action Toss [3d6 (10½)]; double action Tail or Trunk [~21?]; triple actions Lightning Trident [9d6 (31½)?] or Earthshaking Bellow [?? 1d12+9 (15½) sonic AoE ??]
=>⅓(84+84+84) + 31½ = 84+31½ = 115½ DPR
That works out to Challenge 23.
We can have a DPR from 111 to 122 with CR 23, so we have a little wiggle room on the damages.
The main problem was we've given the Gurgohemoth such high health and AC the CR Calculator awards it a Defensive CR of 24, and with a +15 to hit and DPR 80 its Offensive CR is only 15.
The Damage #8 works out as a Offensive CR of 22.
Casimir Liber
Adventurer
Yeah let's go with option 8 - in which case it also jumps a proficiency bonus and is now +16 to hit 
Cleon
Legend
Yeah let's go with option 8 - in which case it also jumps a proficiency bonus and is now +16 to hit
Yes, I allowed for that when doing the CR recalculation.
Updating the Gurgohemoth.
Cleon
Legend
Okay, now onto the juicy bits: how it mercilessly turns the PCs into paste.
I'm thinking the following, for a start:
Multiattack. The gurgohemoth can use its Frightful Presence. It then makes three attacks: one gore attack or one stomp attack together with two tail-lightning attacks or two different attacks from its tail and/or trunk (i.e. its tail, tail-flick and tail-lightning attacks or its trunk, trunk-crush, trunk-hurl and trunk-snort attacks, but it cannot use the same melee attack twice). An opponent attacked by the gurgohemoth's tail melee attacks cannot be targeted by gore or trunk attacks. Its tail and tail-flick can only be combined with a stomp attack or other attacks from its tail (its tail-lightning ranged attack can freely combine with other attacks).
Alternatively, the gurgohemoth can use Frightful Presence and then make two attacks: one gore and one stomp against separate opponents.
Gore. Melee Weapon Attack: +16 to hit, reach 20 ft., one target. Hit: 42 (4d12 + 16) piercing damage.
Stomp. Melee Weapon Attack: +16 to hit, reach 10 ft., one creature that must be prone or Large size or smaller. Hit: 42 (6d10 + 9) bludgeoning damage.
Frightful Presence. Each creature of the gurgohemoth's choice that is within 120 feet of the gurgohemoth and aware of it must succeed on a DC 16 Wisdom saving throw or become frightened for 1 minute. A creature can repeat the saving throw at the end of each of its turns, ending the effect on itself on a success. If a creature’s saving throw is successful or the effect ends for it, the creature is immune to the gurgohemoth's Frightful Presence for the next 24 hours.
Tail. Melee Weapon Attack: +16 to hit, reach 20 ft., one target. Hit: 21 (2d6 + 14) piercing damage.
Tail-Flick. Melee Weapon Attack: +16 to hit, reach 20 ft., one target. Hit: No damage on hit, but target must make a DC 22 Dexterity or Strength saving throw (target's choice). The target takes 3 (d6) bludgeoning damage on a successful save, but on a failed save the target suffers the following:
If the target is Large size or smaller, they are thrown a distance of up to 30 ft. (6d6+9) in a random direction, or 15 ft. (2d8 + 6) for a Large creature. When the target hits the ground it takes 10 (3d6) falling (bludgeoning) damage and lands prone. If the gurgohemoth flicks its victim over a cliff or into a pit that also causes falling damage, the target takes whichever falling damage rolls higher (do not add the tail-flick's 3d6 falling damage to other falling damage).
If the target is Huge size or bigger, the tail knocks them over, the target takes 10 (3d6) falling (bludgeoning) damage and falls prone.
Tail-Lightning (As Ranged Attack). Ranged Weapon Attack: +14 to hit, range ??? ft., one target. Hit: 21 (6d6) lightning damage. Gurgohemoths and gurgotches are immune to this attack.
Tail-Lightning (As Save). The gurgohemoth's tail shoots black lightning at a single target within ??? ft. The target must make a DC 22 Dexterity saving throw, taking 21 (6d6) lightning damage on a failed save, or no damage on a successful one. Gurgohemoths and gurgotches are immune to this attack.
Not sure whether I prefer the save or the to hit version of this. I was going to add an AoE version of this as an option for Legendary Actions:
Forked Lightning. The gurgohemoth's tail shoots black lightning in a ???-foot line. Each creature in that area must make a DC 22 Dexterity saving throw, taking 21 (6d6) lightning damage on a failed save, or half as much damage on a successful one. Gurgohemoths and gurgotches are immune to this attack.
Trunk. Melee Weapon Attack: +16 to hit, reach 20 ft., one target. Hit: 21 (4d6 + 7) bludgeoning damage and the target must make a DC 24 Dexterity or Strength saving throw (target's choice) or be grabbed (escape DC 24).
Trunk-Crush. Melee Weapon Attack: +16 to hit (can only target opponents that are grabbed and up to Huge size; automatically hits restrained targets), reach 20 ft., one target. Hit: 21 (2d4 + 16) bludgeoning damage and the target is restrained.
Trunk-Hurl. Melee Weapon Attack: +16 to hit (automatically hits grabbed opponents), reach 20 ft., one target. Hit: The target must make a DC 24 Dexterity or Strength saving throw (target's choice) or take 21 (4d6 + 7) bludgeoning (falling) damage, halved on a successful save. With a failed save the target also suffers the following:
If the target is Huge size or smaller, they are scooped up and hurled a distance of up to 40 ft. (8d6+8), or 20 ft. (4d6 + 6) for a Huge creature. The gurgohemoth can hurl the target in any direction and may throw them to land a shorter distance away than the listed maximum range if it desires. If the gurgohemoth hurls its victim over a cliff or into a pit that also causes falling damage, the target takes whichever falling damage rolls higher (do not add the trunk-toss's 4d6 + 7 falling damage to other falling damage).
If the target is Gargantuan size, the trunk sweeps their legs and slams them into the ground, causing them to fall prone.
Trunk-Snort. A bit of acid damage and maybe the poisoned condition for a few rounds? Gurgohemoths and gurgotches are immune to this attack.
The idea with the Trunk-Snort was the Gurgohemoth occasionally breathes out what to it is a small puff of gas which has the same effect as its breath weapon, albeit on a far reduced scale.
Haven't quite decided on what effect I like for the Breath Weapon which means I couldn't qualify the Trunk-Snort either.
Maybe acid damage or necrotic damage?
Oh, I've already added the Gore and Stomp to the Gurgohemoth, as they are pretty straightforward.
I'm thinking the following, for a start:
Multiattack. The gurgohemoth can use its Frightful Presence. It then makes three attacks: one gore attack or one stomp attack together with two tail-lightning attacks or two different attacks from its tail and/or trunk (i.e. its tail, tail-flick and tail-lightning attacks or its trunk, trunk-crush, trunk-hurl and trunk-snort attacks, but it cannot use the same melee attack twice). An opponent attacked by the gurgohemoth's tail melee attacks cannot be targeted by gore or trunk attacks. Its tail and tail-flick can only be combined with a stomp attack or other attacks from its tail (its tail-lightning ranged attack can freely combine with other attacks).
Alternatively, the gurgohemoth can use Frightful Presence and then make two attacks: one gore and one stomp against separate opponents.
Gore. Melee Weapon Attack: +16 to hit, reach 20 ft., one target. Hit: 42 (4d12 + 16) piercing damage.
Stomp. Melee Weapon Attack: +16 to hit, reach 10 ft., one creature that must be prone or Large size or smaller. Hit: 42 (6d10 + 9) bludgeoning damage.
Frightful Presence. Each creature of the gurgohemoth's choice that is within 120 feet of the gurgohemoth and aware of it must succeed on a DC 16 Wisdom saving throw or become frightened for 1 minute. A creature can repeat the saving throw at the end of each of its turns, ending the effect on itself on a success. If a creature’s saving throw is successful or the effect ends for it, the creature is immune to the gurgohemoth's Frightful Presence for the next 24 hours.
Tail. Melee Weapon Attack: +16 to hit, reach 20 ft., one target. Hit: 21 (2d6 + 14) piercing damage.
Tail-Flick. Melee Weapon Attack: +16 to hit, reach 20 ft., one target. Hit: No damage on hit, but target must make a DC 22 Dexterity or Strength saving throw (target's choice). The target takes 3 (d6) bludgeoning damage on a successful save, but on a failed save the target suffers the following:
If the target is Large size or smaller, they are thrown a distance of up to 30 ft. (6d6+9) in a random direction, or 15 ft. (2d8 + 6) for a Large creature. When the target hits the ground it takes 10 (3d6) falling (bludgeoning) damage and lands prone. If the gurgohemoth flicks its victim over a cliff or into a pit that also causes falling damage, the target takes whichever falling damage rolls higher (do not add the tail-flick's 3d6 falling damage to other falling damage).
If the target is Huge size or bigger, the tail knocks them over, the target takes 10 (3d6) falling (bludgeoning) damage and falls prone.
Tail-Lightning (As Ranged Attack). Ranged Weapon Attack: +14 to hit, range ??? ft., one target. Hit: 21 (6d6) lightning damage. Gurgohemoths and gurgotches are immune to this attack.
Tail-Lightning (As Save). The gurgohemoth's tail shoots black lightning at a single target within ??? ft. The target must make a DC 22 Dexterity saving throw, taking 21 (6d6) lightning damage on a failed save, or no damage on a successful one. Gurgohemoths and gurgotches are immune to this attack.
Not sure whether I prefer the save or the to hit version of this. I was going to add an AoE version of this as an option for Legendary Actions:
Forked Lightning. The gurgohemoth's tail shoots black lightning in a ???-foot line. Each creature in that area must make a DC 22 Dexterity saving throw, taking 21 (6d6) lightning damage on a failed save, or half as much damage on a successful one. Gurgohemoths and gurgotches are immune to this attack.
Trunk. Melee Weapon Attack: +16 to hit, reach 20 ft., one target. Hit: 21 (4d6 + 7) bludgeoning damage and the target must make a DC 24 Dexterity or Strength saving throw (target's choice) or be grabbed (escape DC 24).
Trunk-Crush. Melee Weapon Attack: +16 to hit (can only target opponents that are grabbed and up to Huge size; automatically hits restrained targets), reach 20 ft., one target. Hit: 21 (2d4 + 16) bludgeoning damage and the target is restrained.
Trunk-Hurl. Melee Weapon Attack: +16 to hit (automatically hits grabbed opponents), reach 20 ft., one target. Hit: The target must make a DC 24 Dexterity or Strength saving throw (target's choice) or take 21 (4d6 + 7) bludgeoning (falling) damage, halved on a successful save. With a failed save the target also suffers the following:
If the target is Huge size or smaller, they are scooped up and hurled a distance of up to 40 ft. (8d6+8), or 20 ft. (4d6 + 6) for a Huge creature. The gurgohemoth can hurl the target in any direction and may throw them to land a shorter distance away than the listed maximum range if it desires. If the gurgohemoth hurls its victim over a cliff or into a pit that also causes falling damage, the target takes whichever falling damage rolls higher (do not add the trunk-toss's 4d6 + 7 falling damage to other falling damage).
If the target is Gargantuan size, the trunk sweeps their legs and slams them into the ground, causing them to fall prone.
Trunk-Snort. A bit of acid damage and maybe the poisoned condition for a few rounds? Gurgohemoths and gurgotches are immune to this attack.
The idea with the Trunk-Snort was the Gurgohemoth occasionally breathes out what to it is a small puff of gas which has the same effect as its breath weapon, albeit on a far reduced scale.
Haven't quite decided on what effect I like for the Breath Weapon which means I couldn't qualify the Trunk-Snort either.
Maybe acid damage or necrotic damage?
Oh, I've already added the Gore and Stomp to the Gurgohemoth, as they are pretty straightforward.
Cleon
Legend
Incidentally, I started disliking the name Earthshaking Bellow mentioned in an earlier Legendary Actions proposal in favor of (Adjective) Trumpeting or Trumpet.
Did wonder about adding it as an option for Multiattack, e.g.:
Alternatively, the gurgohemoth can use Frightful Presence and then make two attacks: one gore and one stomp against separate opponents; or the gurgohemoth can use Earsplitting Trumpet and then make one attack with a gore or stomp and two attacks from its tail (as above).
But I concluded that was an unnecessary complication.
Casimir Liber
Adventurer
I missed the alert for this...hmmm. Okay. I think ranged attack for tail lightning. Love the idea of forked lightning for legendary attack. trunk-snort is cool to.
"Earsplitting trumpet" is cool name
My idea of damage was dark energy - basically functions as hybrid of necrotic and radiant damage - victim takes most vulnerable option to either.
"Earsplitting trumpet" is cool name
My idea of damage was dark energy - basically functions as hybrid of necrotic and radiant damage - victim takes most vulnerable option to either.
Cleon
Legend
Updating the Gurgohemoth.
I added the following for the Legendary Actions, I think that covers everything:
Legendary Actions
The gurgohemoth can take 3 legendary actions, choosing from the options below. Only one legendary action option can be used at a time and only at the end of another creature's turn. The gurgohemoth regains spent legendary actions at the start of its turn.
Detect. The gurgohemoth makes a Wisdom (Perception) check.
Earsplitting Trumpet. The gurgohemoth uses Earsplitting Trumpet.
Flick Aside Insect. The gurgohemoth makes a tail-flick attack.
Tail Attack (Costs 2 Actions). The gurgohemoth makes a tail or tail-lightning attack.
Trunk Attack (Costs 2 Actions). The gurgohemoth makes a trunk, trunk-crush or trunk-hurl attack.
Trident Thunder (Costs 3 Actions) The gurgohemoth unleashes three intertwined bolts of black lightning from the points of its tail, producing Forked Lightning (3 actions).
I've included it in the Enworld Draft.
I believed I mentioned yonks ago that I mused about adding a Variant: Alternative Breath Weapon that suggested that Gurgohemoths sometimes had different breath weapons than the normal version.
As for the basic one, I'm thinking I'd rather not have it stray too far from the "chemical weapon attack" approach of the basic Gurgotch, just without the paralysis.
I'm starting to think maybe just poison damage and a minute or so of the poisoned condition, with a save-per-round to shake it off?
Dang it, I just recalled I intended trunk-snort to be a single action Legendary Action option.
Better reupdate the Gurgohemoth update!
Cleon
Legend
Anyhow, let's finish the lightning attacks from the tail first.
First, we need a range. I'm thinking 100 feet? An Ancient Blue Dragon shoots 120 ft. lightning and an Adult Blue Dragon shoots 90 ft. so it feels appropriate to have it in the same ballpark.
There is a slight problem in that if we strictly follow the DPR to CR guidelines, the Forked Lightning should do 2/3rd the damage of the Tail-Lightning if we want it to be 10.5 damage per Legendary Action. However, making it 4d6 damage seems woefully weak.
An easy fix is to make the forked lightning a Recharge attack so the Gurgohemoth can't spam it.
Also, I forgot to specify a width for the line of the Forked Lightning's path. I'd go for 5 feet like an Adult Blue or the lightning bolt spell.
Like so:
If it can only use it once every three rounds on average that only increases the DPR by 3.5, which keeps us within the Offensive CR budget.
By pure coincidence that'd give Forked Lightning exactly the same AoE as lightning bolt. Perhaps we should give it the "The lightning ignites flammable objects in the area that aren’t being worn or carried" like the spell?
First, we need a range. I'm thinking 100 feet? An Ancient Blue Dragon shoots 120 ft. lightning and an Adult Blue Dragon shoots 90 ft. so it feels appropriate to have it in the same ballpark.
Tail-Lightning. Ranged Weapon Attack: +14 to hit, range 100 ft., one target. Hit: 21 (6d6) lightning damage. Gurgohemoths and gurgotches are immune to this attack.
There is a slight problem in that if we strictly follow the DPR to CR guidelines, the Forked Lightning should do 2/3rd the damage of the Tail-Lightning if we want it to be 10.5 damage per Legendary Action. However, making it 4d6 damage seems woefully weak.
An easy fix is to make the forked lightning a Recharge attack so the Gurgohemoth can't spam it.
Also, I forgot to specify a width for the line of the Forked Lightning's path. I'd go for 5 feet like an Adult Blue or the lightning bolt spell.
Like so:
Forked Lightning (Recharge 5-6). The gurgohemoth's tail shoots black lightning in a 100-foot line that is 5-feet wide. Each creature in that area must make a DC 22 Dexterity saving throw, taking 21 (6d6) lightning damage on a failed save, or half as much damage on a successful one. Gurgohemoths and gurgotches are immune to this attack.
If it can only use it once every three rounds on average that only increases the DPR by 3.5, which keeps us within the Offensive CR budget.
By pure coincidence that'd give Forked Lightning exactly the same AoE as lightning bolt. Perhaps we should give it the "The lightning ignites flammable objects in the area that aren’t being worn or carried" like the spell?
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