Matrix Sorcica
Hero
Hmmm... Since added hp directly affects CR, is the multiplyer for resistance to weapons of +X equivalent, or will it mess up CR?
D&D 5E (2014) 5e EPIC MONSTER UPDATES
- Thread starter dave2008
- Start date
Hmmm... Since added hp directly affects CR, is the multiplyer for resistance to weapons of +X equivalent, or will it mess up CR?
dave2008
Legend
Well your in luck! They are going away in the 2nd drafts, replaced by Divine Rank! But I will be finishing the first drafts with them as some people like them and I want to complete one thought before I head to the next.
I am also adopting an epic version of my Hardcore Monsters format for the 2nd drafts: 5e Hardcore Monster Manual Thus they will have more HP (in general).
Blacklight85
First Post
Welp time to do some reupdating again. Won't this make you check every statblock you've made?
CapnZapp
Legend
dave2008
Legend
Yes and that is intentional. After the first drafts are finished I want to review every monster before it is moved to the 2nd draft. I also want to proofread them, which I haven't done (but others have on some
, check for consistency of language, and streamline the concept. I may also start adding some lore and/or lair & domain actions.I will also probably start a new thread for the 2nd drafts.
dave2008
Legend
I'm not sure if you're being serious or not, but if you are, here you go:
As far as I know it started in 3e (though it seems to be a more codified version of the classifications in the 1e Deities and Demigods) with the 3e Deities and Demigods book. In Chapter 2 it defines Ranks of Divine Power as follows:
"Rank 0: Creatures of this rank are sometimes called quasideities or hero deities. Creatures that have a mortal and a deity as parents also fall into this category. These entities cannot grant spells, but are immortal and usually have one or more ability scores that are far above the norm for their species. They may have some worshipers. Ordinary mortals do not have a divine rank of 0. They lack a divine rank altogether.
Rank 1–5: These entities, called demigods, are the weakest of the deities. A demigod can grant spells and perform a few deeds that are beyond mortal limits, such as hearing a grasshopper from a mile away.
A demigod has anywhere from a few hundred to a few thousand devoted mortal worshipers and may receive veneration or respect from many more. A demigod controls a small godly realm (usually on an Outer Plane) and has minor control over a portfolio that includes one or more aspects of mortal existence. A demigod might be very accomplished in a single skill or a group of related skills, gain combat advantages in special circumstances, or be able to bring about minor changes in reality itself related to the portfolio. For example, a demigod of thieves might be able to change a stolen item so that it is no longer recognizable.
Rank 6–10: Called lesser deities, these entities grant spells and can perform more powerful deeds than demigods can, such as sensing certain phenomena from ten miles away.
Lesser deities have anywhere from a few thousand to tens of thousands of worshipers and control larger godly realms than demigods. They also have keener senses where their portfolios are concerned.
Rank 11–15: These entities are called intermediate deities. They have hundreds of thousands of mortal worshipers and control larger godly realms than demigods or lesser deities.
Rank 16–20: Called greater deities, these entities may have millions of mortal worshipers, and they command respect even among other deities. The most powerful of greater deities rule over other deities just as mortal sovereigns rule over commoners.
Rank 21+: These entities are beyond the ken of mortals and care nothing for worshipers. They do not grant spells, do not answer prayers, and do not respond to queries. If they are known at all, it is to a handful of scholars on the Material Plane. They are called overdeities. In some pantheistic systems, the consent of an overdeity is required to become a god."
Now 4e abandon the idea (though it did have gods, avatars and exarchs) and 5e brought back a simplified version with just quasi, lesser and greater deities. Both did away with the granularity of a number rank.
For my version of Divine Rank I am going to bring back the number rank, though it will be my own rating and will probably top out at 10. By bringing back divine rank I hope to create a simplified system that gives some/most epic monsters power beyond mortals without resorting to all of the gymnastics I did with the Epic Bonus, revised CR progression, +x to hit, etc. The current plan is to give epic creatures powers relative to their rank. Such as, a Rank 5 epic monster is resistant to the attacks of rank 3 or less monster and immune to attacks from Rank 0 or lesser creatures. Also, the hope is to be able divorce Divine Rank from CR so that you could have a lower CR Fey Lord that as a high Divine Rank.
The issue I've created is that the traits of a given rank effect the CR, making it a moving target. So, I am thinking about maybe my epic monsters have a CR relative to the Divine Rank. This could be overly complex though. Of course, this is not to different than the DMG which has CR adjustments qualified by the assumption of the level of the PCs that are expected to challenge it (dragon fear not effecting the CR for PCs over lvl 10 for example). Not sure of exactly what I am going to do, I am still working on it.
Last edited:
Blacklight85
First Post
I'm not sure if you're being serious or not, but if you are, here you go:
As far as I know it started in 3e (though it seems to be a more codified version of the classifications in the 1e Deities and Demigods) with the 3e Deities and Demigods book. In Chapter 2 it defines Ranks of Divine Power as follows:
"Rank 0: Creatures of this rank are sometimes called quasideities or hero deities. Creatures that have a mortal and a deity as parents also fall into this category. These entities cannot grant spells, but are immortal and usually have one or more ability scores that are far above the norm for their species. They may have some worshipers. Ordinary mortals do not have a divine rank of 0. They lack a divine rank altogether.
Rank 1–5: These entities, called demigods, are the weakest of the deities. A demigod can grant spells and perform a few deeds that are beyond mortal limits, such as hearing a grasshopper from a mile away.
A demigod has anywhere from a few hundred to a few thousand devoted mortal worshipers and may receive veneration or respect from many more. A demigod controls a small godly realm (usually on an Outer Plane) and has minor control over a portfolio that includes one or more aspects of mortal existence. A demigod might be very accomplished in a single skill or a group of related skills, gain combat advantages in special circumstances, or be able to bring about minor changes in reality itself related to the portfolio. For example, a demigod of thieves might be able to change a stolen item so that it is no longer recognizable.
Rank 6–10: Called lesser deities, these entities grant spells and can perform more powerful deeds than demigods can, such as sensing certain phenomena from ten miles away.
Lesser deities have anywhere from a few thousand to tens of thousands of worshipers and control larger godly realms than demigods. They also have keener senses where their portfolios are concerned.
Rank 11–15: These entities are called intermediate deities. They have hundreds of thousands of mortal worshipers and control larger godly realms than demigods or lesser deities.
Rank 16–20: Called greater deities, these entities may have millions of mortal worshipers, and they command respect even among other deities. The most powerful of greater deities rule over other deities just as mortal sovereigns rule over commoners.
Rank 21+: These entities are beyond the ken of mortals and care nothing for worshipers. They do not grant spells, do not answer prayers, and do not respond to queries. If they are known at all, it is to a handful of scholars on the Material Plane. They are called overdeities. In some pantheistic systems, the consent of an overdeity is required to become a god."
Now 4e abandon the idea (though it did have gods, avatars and exarchs) and 5e brought back a simplified version with just quasi, lesser and greater deities. Both did away with the granularity of a number rank.
For my version of Divine Rank I am going to bring back the number rank, though it will be my own rating and will probably top out at 10. By bringing back divine rank I hope to create a simplified system that gives some/most epic monsters power beyond mortals without resorting to all of the gymnastics I did with the Epic Bonus, revised CR progression, +x to hit, etc. The current plan is to give epic creatures powers relative to their rank. Such as, a Rank 5 epic monster is resistant to the attacks of rank 3 or less monster and immune to attacks from Rank 0 or lesser creatures. Also, the hope is to be able divorce Divine Rank from CR so that you could have a lower CR Fey Lord that as a high Divine Rank.
The issue I've created is that the traits of a given rank effect the CR, making it a moving target. So, I am thinking about maybe my epic monsters have a CR relative to the Divine Rank. This could be overly complex though. Of course, this is not to different than the DMG which has CR adjustments qualified by the assumption of the level of the PCs that are expected to challenge it (dragon fear not effecting the CR for PCs over lvl 10 for example). Not sure of exactly what I am going to do, I am still working on it.
Let's say you had the crazy idea of statting out lord AO. Would he warrant his own level of divone rank or would he just cap out at 10.
dave2008
Legend
Personally, in my fiction, I don't like the concept of AO or overdeities in general. I prefer something like this:
Primordial Entities
Greater Gods
Intermediate Gods
Lesser Gods
Demigods
Quasigods/exarchs
All of these entities can be challenged by creatures of the category directly below them (at least). However, with my limited understanding of AO, it is unchallenged and thus would warrant its own level of divine rank.
But I wouldn't do that (there is no overdeity in my project), I would make it a primordial entity and since that doesn't fit the lore, I am not likely to make a stat block for it. If I tired to fit Ao into my system it would be a bit of a slap in the face of the existing lore. I don't think I want to do that, better to just ignore it.
dave2008
Legend
FYI, many of these epic monsters already get max HP and you don't need to worry about feats when making monsters - you just do it! The +x defenses and attacks was a method to show relative power between epic monsters / gods and make them more distant from mortals. But like I said, this is all changing in the 2nd drafts.
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