D&D 5E 5e Psion+++++thread

[TiQuinn]

I don’t think mechanical differences are real differences. Using points instead of slots is a difference that makes no difference. You really want to be able to do things no other class can, not just have a differently named resource to track.

Which brings us to the real problem in 5e - pretty much all traditionally psychic abilities - telepathy, telekinesis etc are available to any caster.

It really needs a redesign of the other caster classes to make a space for psi.

I don’t know that it’s true or that it has to be true that all the psychic abilities are already available to other casters. Some of it could be scale. For instance, a psion’s telekinesis could be more powerful than Mage Hand but maybe not as powerful as Telekinesis (5th level).

 

[James Gasik]

DriveThruRPG

www.drivethrurpg.com

Here you go.

You can also get the class and powers, free, in my signature.

I just wanted to acknowledge that I'm aware of your product (I even mention you in the first post), and I bought it, thank you!

The thread spawned because CleverNickName asked me in another thread "what would you call a Psion and we'll build it" (asking me to move it to another thread, so here we are). While your work is an answer to the question, I thought it would be flippant of me to say "oh, just read this book if you haven't already", lol.

And, as this thread points out and proves, lol, everyone has a different take on psionics. Yours is excellent, but mine varies somewhat.

It's one of those fun things about the game- there are things about it that will never have a true consensus agreement. Every character class, to varying degrees, has these issues. Some examples:

-some believe a Fighter should be the best at all things combat, because after all, it's in the class name. Some feel Fighter should be the "no brain" class, where all you do is attack and roll dice with very large numbers, others want the Fighter to be a master of tactics, a leader of men, and/or a martial controller. Some want the Fighter to be the proverbial "everyman caught in an extraordinary situation", while others want him to be just as epic and awesome as the Wizard, able to cleave mountains and swim through the air.

-some feel Wizards shouldn't have at will magic, all spells should require long cast times, free "ritual" spells shouldn't exist, and every spell should be a gamble with the dice gods to determine if you obliterate your foes or yourself. Others feel that magic should naturally be all powerful, and if anything, Wizards need to be buffed!

-some feel Monks should be martial arts gods, flipping and dodging around the battlefield, untouchable and unbeatable. Others feel that anyone dumb enough to wade into battle against people with swords with their bare hands and no armor deserves to be sliced into bacon. Some feel the Monk is an ideal skirmisher with tons of control and is the premier anti-caster. Others feel that it's a class with a lot of abilities that do not synergize, and is nothing but a one trick pony.

-Rangers. Where to even begin? Some want Rangers to be non-magical, with no abilities beyond what someone with SEER training has. Others...do not. Is the Ranger a lightly armored, bow using, dual weapon wielding skirmisher? Can he track? Elude foes with camouflage? Have animal companions like Tarzan or the Beastmaster? Is he the Druidic Paladin? Does he commune with the spirits of nature? Is he a master of ambushing and traps? I'm sure everyone has seen the debates.

So the Psion is no different, and it's hard to define, because people who like psionics each have their own favorite interpretation, and people who don't would rather the concept go bugger off and leave D&D forever.

 

[Steampunkette]

Oh, I get that you called me out in the first post.

I was providing a link to everyone -else- to see what you were referencing! I'm sorry I didn't make that clear.

 

[LuisCarlos17f]

With a pool of power points you have got more flexibility to use the powers. For example a sorcerer could cast "summon ally" but psion could use more points for astral constructs in the fight against the dungeon boss. The "mana economy" could be different.

* Now I imagine something like summoning a "persona" (videogame saga), a monster of the id (Forbidden Planet movie) or a "stand" (Jojo's Bizarre adventures).

* Elemental Stewards from the Complete Psionic should be recovered. And a mutation/digievolution to become something like a simbiontic elemental armour.

* Could a psiartificer(subclass) to create instant traps (by ectoplasm) like in "Orcs must die", "Fortnite: save the world" or the "karakuri" from "Wildhearts" videogame?

* Could metacreativity to be used to create tools? For example to open the lock of a jail. Or create ectoplasm to block some machine or clockwork construct. Or using an astral construct like a mixture of costruct monster mount and magitek exosuit.

 

[Scribe]

So the Psion is no different, and it's hard to define, because people who like psionics each have their own favorite interpretation, and people who don't would rather the concept go bugger off and leave D&D forever.

I based mine on mostly 2e concepts, but with the 3e SRD as a base. I think to bring it into 5e I would absolutely drop the idea of spell slots all together.

 

[James Gasik]

Oh, I get that you called me out in the first post.

I was providing a link to everyone -else- to see what you were referencing! I'm sorry I didn't make that clear.

No problem!

 

[Mind of tempest]

Well, CleverNickName asked me what I'd want from a class, but I doubt you could really make one class that would let you play any psionic archetype- there's a few. But you have to start somewhere, and I figure an Esper is the best place to start.

Ideally, yes, you'd have not only Wild Talents available for characters of all classes, but psionic variants of classes like the Psychic Warrior or Skulk. A Psionic Ranger might look like the hero from the Lone Wolf gamebooks, for example.

-

As for redesigning magic, I don't think it's strictly necessary (though it could probably help). What you have to do is figure out what are the limits of Psionics, what can Psionics do that magic does, what magic cannot, what it does better or worse than magic, and what it cannot do.

Sadly, you're always going to have to use "what can a caster do at level X" as your yardstick for powers, or you end up with some of the problems I had with the Mystic, where a few of their powers were simply better than equivalent spells. Not that this is a problem per se, but when you're running an adventure that says "a caster of level X can do this and encounters are supposedly built with that in mind" and some guy comes along throwing oranges instead of apples, that can be jarring.

we do not need a psionic sorcerer that feels like bullying.

heratages we need something more iconic something that stands out, a fellowship equiverlent.

 

[TheSword]

Adventures in Rokugan 5e has replaced shugenja spells with invocations which have a base effect and then can be boosted by spending more points to enhance those base effects.

For instance Armour of Stone costs 1 point and grants you a base AC 16 like barkskin but imposes disadvantage on dex saves. It can be boosted as follows.
+1 point to cast as a bonus action
+1 point to grant unarmed attacks 1d6 damage
+1 point or more to grant 1d8 temp hp per point spent
+1 or +2 points to make the AC 18 or 20 respectively
+2 points to make the casting time a reaction
+2 points to grant DR 3
Each round you spend one point to maintain it whatever the effect. The invocation also requires one less point to cast if you are in are in rocky terrain or in a stone cavern or edifice.

It’s an interesting system that moves away from spell slots. I can see this approach working for psionics.

 

[James Gasik]

we do not need a psionic sorcerer that feels like bullying.

heratages we need something more iconic something that stands out, a fellowship equiverlent.

I'm sorry, bullying? Who's being bullied?

 

[James Gasik]

Adventures in Rokugan 5e has replaced shugenja spells with invocations which have a base effect and then can be boosted by spending more points to enhance those base effects.

For instance Armour of Stone costs 1 point and grants you a base AC 16 like barkskin but imposes disadvantage on dex saves. It can be boosted as follows.
+1 point to cast as a bonus action
+1 point to grant unarmed attacks 1d6 damage
+1 point or more to grant 1d8 temp hp per point spent
+1 or +2 points to make the AC 18 or 20 respectively
+2 points to make the casting time a reaction
+2 points to grant DR 3
Each round you spend one point to maintain it whatever the effect. The invocation also requires one less point to cast if you are in are in rocky terrain or in a stone cavern or edifice.

It’s an interesting system that moves away from spell slots. I can see this approach working for psionics.

I really liked that supplement, though my playgroup found that Shugenja have woefully low amounts of Favor to work with and so that class is no longer being used.