(5e) Should Rogues be able to sneak attack with all light weapons?

[Charlaquin]

I was thinking allow it with a STR attack.

You can make STR attacks with finesse weapons, if you so choose.

On that note, rather than change Sneak Attack to work with clubs, I’d add a Sap weapon that does bludgeoning damage and has finesse.

 

[Pauln6]

This means Tasslehoff Burrfoot's hoopak can't be used to sneak attack unless used as a sling.

 

[Blue]

I say no, because "blunt object" and "finesse" do not go together.

But "finesse" and "sneak attack" are not the same at all. Think about hitting someone with a cosh (a heavy stick, bar, or such - definitely a bludgeoning weapon), blackjack or sap to knock them out -- that's a classic real world application that fits sneak attack.

So, starting from the point that sneak attack as a concept works just fine with bludgeoning, what are your thoughts about allowing any light weapon to sneak attack?

 

[Blue]

I see the restriction to finesse weapons as a thematic choice rather than balance one. Though to my mind it ignores the thug/brute type of STR-based rogue archetype. (Though perhaps correctly, thinking that would retrod ground already covered by other classes and the Criminal background.)

From a balance perspective, I don't see a problem. Of course, I'm also the person who played with the idea that proficiency with all martial weapons would up the die of simple weapons by 1 - just to give them parity and let us see them in play by martial characters to enable more character concepts. So I acknowledge a bias.

 

[Azzy]

I see the restriction to finesse weapons as a thematic choice rather than balance one. Though to my mind it ignores the thug/brute type of STR-based rogue archetype. (Though perhaps correctly, thinking that would retrod ground already covered by other classes and the Criminal background.)

From a balance perspective, I don't see a problem. Of course, I'm also the person who played with the idea that proficiency with all martial weapons would up the die of simple weapons by 1 - just to give them parity and let us see them in play by martial characters to enable more character concepts. So I acknowledge a bias.

Given that the light weapons with the biggest damage is the scimitar & shortsword (1d6), and the rogue can already use them for sneak attacks—not to mention the rapier (1d8) and crossbow (1d10), I'd say that there's nothing mechanically unbalanced in letting rogues use other, non-finesse, light weapons.

Go for it.

 

[robus]

This scenario sounds like the rogue is attempting to sneak up on someone and knock them out? I would argue that until a fight breaks out the combat rules don't apply, so sneak attack damage/weapons/finesse etc are moot until that point.

One thing the rules don't describe is a non-combat knockout scenario. To me asking for the attacker to reduce the target to zero HP is ridiculous because the target is not fighting back (which is what HP models). So to knock an unsuspecting target out I'd say it's simply a Str vs Con contest. The Rogue (assuming they successfully sneaked into position) wallops the target with the cosh, bam. Roll Str + ability bonus + bonus for the heft of the cosh (+2, +3?) compare to the target's constitution. If it beats the target the target is knocked unconscious (and takes the bludgeoning damage) or if it fails, target takes damage and a fight probably breaks out.

Attempting to knock out a creature one size larger (or same size but wearing a helmet) is done at disadvantage. 2 sizes larger and it's not possible. Smaller creature is done with advantage.

If I've misread the scenario my apologies, but I posted this in case it's relevant (or at least it's useful to others )

 

[Satyrn]

Would it do any harm to let a Rogue sneak attack with a club (d4, light, bludgeoning)? Coshing the victim seems appropriately thematic! How about hand axes? Are there any balance issues?

It is my belief that 5e is so loosely - broadly might be a better word - balanced that no small change like this will affect it at all.


So no harm that way. It might change the flavor of rogues, give them a new favorite standard weapon.

 

[Cap'n Kobold]

Would it do any harm to let a Rogue sneak attack with a club (d4, light, bludgeoning)? Coshing the victim seems appropriately thematic! How about hand axes? Are there any balance issues?

I straight-out removed the Finesse requirement for Sneak Attack, so it can be performed with any weapon.
I have yet to see any balance issues. Rogues get much less out of a large damage die than say, Fighters do.

I say no, because "blunt object" and "finesse" do not go together.

Any study of cane fighting disproves this notion entirely.

I think that there might be some confusion between the common use of "finesse" - to handle with skill (or similar) and D&D's usage of "Finesse weapon" - a weapon whose damage may not be determined by the speed and force that it strikes with, but rather the grace and balance of its wielder.

 

[MoonSong]

Would it do any harm to let a Rogue sneak attack with a club (d4, light, bludgeoning)? Coshing the victim seems appropriately thematic! How about hand axes? Are there any balance issues?

Honestly, I don't think rogues should be able to sneak attack with all light weapons, I think they should be able to sneak attack with all weapons.

 

[DND_Reborn]

Honestly, I don't think rogues should be able to sneak attack with all light weapons, I think they should be able to sneak attack with all weapons.

Cool, I was going to say this (or something similar) if no one else had.

Even when you think about the biggest weapons' damage (2d6) compared to 1d6 weapons, you are only adding 3.5 points of damage. Since Sneak attack isn't a multiplier of the base weapon damage, I see no issue at all with allow a Rogue to sneak attack with any weapon really. It would hardly break anything IMO.