D&D 5E 5th edition Ranger: Why does every class have to have it's own schtick?

[Minigiant]

How is it false? A dex based fighter with an outlander background and magic initiate feat pretty much replicates what the ranger's theme has been for decades.

Can't track
Can't anticipate nor set up ambushes
Can't heal
Can't speak/charm with animals
Can't speak/interact with plants
Can't create nor detect traps
Can't detect magic
Can't use divination or additional senses

What do you think the Ranger's schtick is? From what I recall, in 1e it was/is definitely Tracking, much moreso even than "Kills Giant Class. Dead." This was ok because he was also a tough fighter. In subsequent editions it seems not to be considered enough.

Ranger throughout the editions could track exceptionally well, anticipate ambushes, heal themselves and others, detect and remove poison and disease, speak/charm with animals, speak/interact with plants, summon beasts, plants, outsiders, and fey, create and detect traps, detect magic auras, and use divination or additional senses.

 

[Sacrosanct]

Can't track
Can't anticipate nor set up ambushes
Can't heal
Can't speak/charm with animals
Can't speak/interact with plants
Can't create nor detect traps
Can't detect magic
Can't use divination or additional senses

.

You are mistaken. The survival skill covers much of that, and the magic initiate and ritual caster feats take care of the rest. I think you're also forgetting that for most of the ranger's lifespan, they couldn't even do much of what you say they can until they reached high level.

 

[I'm A Banana]

Can't track

Survival skill (PHB, pg. 178: "...make a Wisdom (Survival) check to follow tracks...")

Can't anticipate nor set up ambushes

Anticipate: Perception skill (PHB, pg 178: "...you might try to spot things that are obscured or easy to miss, whether they are orcs lying in ambush on a road, thugs hiding in the shadows of an alley, or...")

Set up: Stealth skill (PHB, pg 177: "...sneak up on someone without being seen or heard...")

Can't heal
Can't speak/charm with animals
Can't speak/interact with plants
Can't create nor detect traps
Can't detect magic
Can't use divination or additional senses

Magic Initiate can cover these.

It's hard to consider that much of a schtick when two skills and a feat can replicate it. It can (and should!) be part of what a ranger does, but these things aren't really class-defining.

 

[77IM]

To me, a class represents a strong character archetype in the genre. Meaning, characters in keep popping up who conform, more-or-less, to that archetype.

I don't think a class needs to be anything more or less than that. It's not a mechanical grouping of abilities, and it's not the end-all, be-all ultimate defining thing about your character. All the classes should be archetypes, and all the archetypes should be classes.

Not every character fits cleanly into an archetype, which is why we have multiclassing. And there's variance within each archetype, which is why we have subclasses.

But making ranger a fighter subclass or fighter/druid multiclass does a disservice to all three -- ranger is a strong enough archetype that it should be a class, and fighter and druid are archetypes of their own, not just ability packages used to make arbitrary characters.

 

[Rod Staffwand]

The relevant questions are:
1. Is the class fun to play?
2. Can a PC playing the class contribute meaningfully to the party's efforts?

Classes that generate fun and useful PCs should stay. Those that have trouble doing so should be cut or improved until they can. If there is a consensus that "Shtick X" would be fun to play, and useful, then interested parties should get working on making it happen.

 

[Minigiant]

You are mistaken. The survival skill covers much of that, and the magic initiate and ritual caster feats take care of the rest. I think you're also forgetting that for most of the ranger's lifespan, they couldn't even do much of what you say they can until they reached high level.

Actually most of those spells needed for those effects are neither cantrip nor rituals.

And survival only works on ground based tracks and is defeated by pass without trace.

Survival skill (PHB, pg. 178: "...make a Wisdom (Survival) check to follow tracks...")


Anticipate: Perception skill (PHB, pg 178: "...you might try to spot things that are obscured or easy to miss, whether they are orcs lying in ambush on a road, thugs hiding in the shadows of an alley, or...")

Set up: Stealth skill (PHB, pg 177: "...sneak up on someone without being seen or heard...")



Magic Initiate can cover these.

It's hard to consider that much of a schtick when two skills and a feat can replicate it. It can (and should!) be part of what a ranger does, but these things aren't really class-defining.

You can't get even get 1/10 of that on one nonranger fighter. And you can't even track airborne nor waterborn targets with just the Survival skill.

Same with invisibe ememies or darkness spewing foes during.

D&D pretty much says " Thou cannot track a dragon without magic and really good Stealth and Perception skill"

 

[Tony Vargas]

Ranger throughout the editions could track exceptionally well,

Mostly true. In some editions they just had the appropriate skill in-class.

anticipate ambushes,

As in being harder surprise? Not in every edition, IIRC...

heal themselves and others, detect and remove poison and disease, speak/charm with animals, speak/interact with plants, summon beasts, plants, outsiders, and fey, create and detect traps, detect magic auras, and use divination or additional senses.

When they could cast spells, which was only at high levels in classic D&D, and only for Essentials mixed martial/primal sub-classes in 4e.

Survival skill (PHB, pg. 178: "...make a Wisdom (Survival) check to follow tracks...")
Anticipate: Perception skill (PHB, pg 178: "...you might try to spot things that are obscured or easy to miss, whether they are orcs lying in ambush on a road, thugs hiding in the shadows of an alley, or...")
Set up: Stealth skill (PHB, pg 177: "...sneak up on someone without being seen or heard...")
Magic Initiate can cover these.

It's hard to consider that much of a schtick when two skills and a feat can replicate it. It can (and should!) be part of what a ranger does, but these things aren't really class-defining.

To be fair there's able to do something, able to do something well, being truly exceptional at doing something, and being the only one who can do something. In 1e, for instance, the Ranger tracked and no one else could, the Thief exclusively opened locks and removed traps, and so forth. From 3e on, the Ranger has had skills that do a lot of the things appropriate to the concept, but hasn't had exclusive access to many (or any) of those, nor necessarily been exceptionally good at them. In 5e, it's rogues & bards who get to be exceptionally good at proficient checks.

You can't get even get 1/10 of that on one nonranger fighter. And you can't even track airborne nor waterborn targets with just the Survival skill.

Tracking a falcon on a cloudy day is a bit exceptional, yes.

 

[Lord Twig]

Despite what the magic haters say, the Ranger is a magical class. Yes he doesn't pick it up till later levels, but he has always had magic. 4e excepted of course, and even then it was added back in later.

Letting the Ranger get spells sooner goes along with the "letting you play the character you want to play from early levels" idea that 5e has embraced. Not from level one, but by level 3 you have the basics. By 5th you are there.

And the Ranger in the PHB does capture the right feel. It just is mechanically a little lacking. A couple fixes and it would be golden. The biggest problem is making the animal companion an independent (but still controlled by the player) creature without making it too good. But something needs to be done because the current rules are clunky and doesn't make much sense from a verisimilitude perspective.

Bottom line, I am very happy with the direction WotC says it is going in.

 

[S'mon]

Ranger throughout the editions could track exceptionally well, anticipate ambushes, heal themselves and others, detect and remove poison and disease, speak/charm with animals, speak/interact with plants, summon beasts, plants, outsiders, and fey, create and detect traps, detect magic auras, and use divination or additional senses.

That's a lot of schtick!

 

[Minigiant]

That's a lot of schtick!

It's really just fantasy wilderness survival.

The issue is D&D with one hand splits it up into a ton of different spells, 3-5 skills, and weapons combat. The other hand then loads obstacle after obstacle via rules to keep a character from consolidating.