D&D 5E A 5e BECMI?

[TheAuldGrump]

It has been mentioned on several topics lately, sometimes by me, that 5e might be well served by looking back to BECMI.

I will admit to a bias - more than half my adult players got started in the game with BECMI and the Cyclopedia. TSR had to have done something right - two of those players are still running a game using the Cyclopedia.

How much attention would folks give to a BECMI 5e, either as the main release or as an adjunct to the game?

And what constitutes the BECMI feel? I lean toward simple rules, vancian magic, and easy to understand classes. (Though I do not feel the need to make elf, dwarf, and halflings classes.)

The Auld Grump

 

[Dice4Hire]

A new BECMI would be, in my opinion, a base game with added rules of complexity.

To me the base game would be something like race and class, with no multi or dual classing allowed. Maybe even (by 4E standards) only at-wills and encounter powers. (But not Vanican magic, please do not go back to that) Perhaps even put more powers based off basic attacks.

Simplify weapons (you got one or don't) and implements (ditto)

This would work level 1-4.

Then from 5-10 we can add themes and daily powers at 5th and 9th (no 1st level dailies, too complicated)

Then from paragon 11th to 15th, we add in a lot of extra rules including APs, and the like that are more complicated.

And finally 15-20 (Where I would cap things) everything goes, with epic destinies or the like making the fifth building block of a character

Race with powers (mostly utilities but some attack encounters)and such easily substituted in.
Class much like 4E now but only at-wills and encounters.
Themes with dailies and more abilities from level 5 to 20
Paragon Path with some AP abilities and more complex powers
Epic Destiny with some stronger abilities to capstone the character.

Something like that, but of course it is very crude.

 

[Rechan]

I at least think having a Basic and then Everything Else would be nice. A sort of Apprentice/Zero to Hero levels, built to give people the "farmer who picked up a sword for the first time" feel. Put that in a separate box.

So that those who want that kind of play can have it, and it's accessible for newbies and everyone else. This also means it's detached enough that those who don't like Zero to Hero can easily skip ahead. Because while I do not prefer that kind of play, I think it should be there for those that do. And it doubles as an excellent entry-level tool for newbies.

 

[Mercurius]

By "BECMI 5E" do you mean a simple version of D&D? Or do you mean a 5E that harkens back to BECMI as its primary ancestor? If the latter, good luck but I doubt that happens. If the former, I think there's a good chance with the talk of the "complexity dial" that 5E will, at its core, be simpler than 3E and 4E, with further complexity being optional. But I really don't see 5E being a much simpler game without the Pandora's Box of options that 3E opened up and 4E continued; if anything, we may see a simplified core that better facilitates more options because they'll all be, well, optional.

 

[TheAuldGrump]

By "BECMI 5E" do you mean a simple version of D&D? Or do you mean a 5E that harkens back to BECMI as its primary ancestor? If the latter, good luck but I doubt that happens. If the former, I think there's a good chance with the talk of the "complexity dial" that 5E will, at its core, be simpler than 3E and 4E, with further complexity being optional. But I really don't see 5E being a much simpler game without the Pandora's Box of options that 3E opened up and 4E continued; if anything, we may see a simplified core that better facilitates more options because they'll all be, well, optional.

Both, either, neither.

I take it to mean a simple system (B), with additions that add complexity and options (EC), and others that stretch how far a given character can be taken (MI).

For others... it can mean something entirely different.

I know an awful lot of gamers who still love BEC, but never much bothered with MI.

And, yeah, stepping away from the 'Everything's Core!' of 4e might be a good idea. I think that hindered more than it helped, leading some to feel that the players were taking power from the DM - 'it's not optional! It's core!' Then again, I tend to use a line item veto on stuff for 3.X as well, so I am likely biased.

I forgot about the Pathfinder Beginner's Box when I first started this topic, but in some ways that is very much what I am talking about.

The Auld Grump

 

[jonesy]

I...and easy to understand classes. (Though I do not feel the need to make elf, dwarf, and halflings classes.)

To me the base game would be something like race and class, with no multi or dual classing allowed.

What game are you guys talking about? Only the rulebooks, no modules or anything? Last time I checked there were over a hundred and twenty classes for BECMI, several kits (from Hollow World), and specialist schools for wizards to boot (GAZ3).

 

[OpsKT]

I think you might be looking for Castles & Crusades.

 

[Mercurius]

I take it to mean a simple system (B), with additions that add complexity and options (EC), and others that stretch how far a given character can be taken (MI).

Is it your preference that complexities and options, both in terms of character development and perhaps tactics, shouldn't be introduced until a bit further on? And then they remain optional?

And, yeah, stepping away from the 'Everything's Core!' of 4e might be a good idea. I think that hindered more than it helped, leading some to feel that the players were taking power from the DM - 'it's not optional! It's core!' Then again, I tend to use a line item veto on stuff for 3.X as well, so I am likely biased.

I completely agree. I'd rather see a reversal, where you the motto is more akin to "A Simple Core, and Almost Everything is Optional." OK, that isn't catchy, but you know what i mean.

I forgot about the Pathfinder Beginner's Box when I first started this topic, but in some ways that is very much what I am talking about.

I'll check it out when it arrives in the mail tomorrow .

 

[Croesus]

I completely agree. I'd rather see a reversal, where you the motto is more akin to "A Simple Core, and Almost Everything is Optional." OK, that isn't catchy, but you know what i mean.

How about "D&D - Have it your way!"

 

[Croesus]

By "BECMI 5E" do you mean a simple version of D&D? Or do you mean a 5E that harkens back to BECMI as its primary ancestor?

My own answer is the former. BECMI wasn't perfect, but it did a number of things right.

1) Anyone who picked up the Basic set could be playing soon after the box was open. Playing hooks new players, not reading rules, trying out dozens of different builds, and so on. Time enough for that once they're hooked. (The PF Beginner Box seems to get this 100%.)

2) It was fun. This is a fuzzy area, but I think it ties directly into point 1 above. Core should include only those elements that would encourage a new player to keep playing. Time enough later to add all the extras that experienced players may (or may not) want.