D&D 5E A different take on Alignment

[doctorbadwolf]

Yeah, I'm glad that the alignment shift/XP penalty is dead and buried.

Truth be told, I don't even know the alignments of my player's PCs and don't really care. I try to pay attention to the other descriptors for motivation for plot and story, but I never enforce anything.

For my PCs I enjoy trying to put myself into someone else's shoes and trying to see the world through their eyes with their bonds, traits, flaws and, yes, alignment. But alignment is just one descriptor of many.

As far as evil, let's just say I've had bad experiences with people that got into it way too much for my taste so it's best to simply not go there.

Pretty much agree with all of this. I don’t allow evil PCs for several reasons, but one is that I’m just not going to be comfortable at the table with someone who is real excited to like, yeet babies off bridges, or whatever.

 

[Flamestrike]

And by the way. Darth Vador is LE.

No he is not.

He cares not one iota about tradition, dishonors (and breaks) the Jedi Code AND the Sith Code, brings about the downfall of the Republic AND the Empire, betrays both masters (Obi Wan AND Palpatine), betrays and tries to kill both apprentices (Starkiller AND Ashoka) chokes his wife to death, cuts off his sons hand then tries to kill him, and tortures his daughter.

He never keeps his word, happily betraying Leia to blow up Alderran, lying to Lando (I'm altering the deal, pray I dont alter it any further), lives and operates outside the law, is unpredictable (an audience with him is just as likely to see you getting choked to death as anything else) and literally acts how his rage and hatred dictate.

He is unconventional, unpredictable and literally fueled by hatred and rage.

He follows the Emperor out of fear, constantly trying to betray him (first to Padme, then to Starkiller, then to Luke, then again to Luke, before finally pegging him down a shaft).

As a Sith he is no less unconventional and a wild card that he was as a CG Jedi; it's just he has lost all sense of morality (becoming Evil) and now works as an agent for a LE Regime.

 

[Flamestrike]

Pretty much agree with all of this. I don’t allow evil PCs for several reasons, but one is that I’m just not going to be comfortable at the table with someone who is real excited to like, yeet babies off bridges, or whatever.

 

[Helldritch]

No he is not.

He cares not one iota about tradition, dishonors (and breaks) the Jedi Code AND the Sith Code, brings about the downfall of the Republic AND the Empire, betrays both masters (Obi Wan AND Palpatine), betrays and tries to kill both apprentices (Starkiller AND Ashoka) chokes his wife to death, cuts off his sons hand then tries to kill him, and tortures his daughter.

He never keeps his word, happily betraying Leia to blow up Alderran, lying to Lando (I'm altering the deal, pray I dont alter it any further), lives and operates outside the law, is unpredictable (an audience with him is just as likely to see you getting choked to death as anything else) and literally acts how his rage and hatred dictate.

He is unconventional, unpredictable and literally fueled by hatred and rage.

He follows the Emperor out of fear, constantly trying to betray him (first to Padme, then to Starkiller, then to Luke, then again to Luke, before finally pegging him down a shaft).

As a Sith he is no less unconventional and a wild card that he was as a CG Jedi; it's just he has lost all sense of morality (becoming Evil) and now works as an agent for a LE Regime.

If you read the books, LE. All the way through. What you describe is a typical LE. A CE would not show so much restraint. Yes he does despicable things, but it is always to further the Empire (in his own twisted view). Darth does not want the Empire to fall. He wants to be an Emperor himself. Because he is clearly better suited for the job. A CE would not wait so long to try. Darth calculates and hopes to get all the Emperor's secrets before making his move. He has had many chances to do kill the Emperor but he did not do it. He wants all the secrets of the Emperor.

Just like all devils wait for an opportunity to overthrow their masters and take their place up to the archdevils themselves waiting to cast down Asmodeus. Darth Vader bids his time for when the Emperor shows him his last secret to eliminate him once and for all. A CE with Vador's power would not be able to wait that long. Only the possibility of seeing his son die forced his hand as he had planned to raise his son as a Sith Lord. Darth was not ready to leave his son die at the hand of the Emperor and thus his action.

The Sith are always two, but when their training is over, the apprentice leave and the old master takes an other apprentice. And the former apprentice is now a master himself. Had the Emperor successfully turned Luke; Darth Vader would have had his training done and left to make another apprentice. All this in the purest Sith tradition. But because the Emperor failed and tried to kill Luke, Vader was forced to act. Because Vador was sure that Luke was the hope for a great Empire for the out of the galaxy invasion that was to come. Reading the books gives us a lot more hints of what Vador was thinking and his motivations. It is so unfortunate that the sequel did not went with the novels... It would have made for great movies and I would have personally loved to see Thrawn.

 

[payn]

What does using the evil alignment label add to any of these characters?

Its a framework for the values, motivations, and actions of a characters moral compass. Very useful for NPCs as a GM especially. In some editions, it has a mechanical impact as well to certain spells and damage types.

 

[Cap'n Kobold]

The Sith are always two, but when their training is over, the apprentice leave and the old master takes an other apprentice. And the former apprentice is now a master himself. Had the Emperor successfully turned Luke; Darth Vader would have had his training done and left to make another apprentice. All this in the purest Sith tradition. But because the Emperor failed and tried to kill Luke, Vader was forced to act. Because Vador was sure that Luke was the hope for a great Empire for the out of the galaxy invasion that was to come. Reading the books gives us a lot more hints of what Vador was thinking and his motivations. It is so unfortunate that the sequel did not went with the novels... It would have made for great movies and I would have personally loved to see Thrawn.

?
I was under the impression that the way of the Sith at that point was not for the apprentice to leave, but for them to kill the Master, and thus become the Master themselves. Thus ensuring that the Sith become ever stronger after each generation.

 

[Helldritch]

?
I was under the impression that the way of the Sith at that point was not for the apprentice to leave, but for them to kill the Master, and thus become the Master themselves. Thus ensuring that the Sith become ever stronger after each generation.

Knights of the old republic mmorpg.
Edit: this is in contrast in which jedi will form many younglings at the same time and only when their training is about to end will they become padawans. That is what I understood from the mmorpg.

 

[FrozenNorth]

This thread has devolved into Chaotic Predictable.

For those who feel alignment detracts from the game, there is little surprise that part of the reason the thread devolved is because of a disagreement between people about how to interpret alignment (who, for the record, are both supporters of alignment).

 

[Aldarc]

No he is not.

Uh-oh. Someone is wrong about a fictional character's alignment. I guess you'll have to brow beat them about why your knowledge of alignment and the character is superior.

 

[Helldritch]

For those who feel alignment detracts from the game, there is little surprise that part of the reason the thread devolved is because of a disagreement between people about how to interpret alignment (who, for the record, are both supporters of alignment).

And that 8s the beauty of alignment my friend. The basics are there, the usefulness of the system is not denied. Only the interpretation is in question here. But basically, we all agree more or less on the same principles. A lawful character differs from a chaotic one and a good character will not do things than an evil one will.