A few questions about Chain Spell

[nsruf]

Interesting observation, Saeviomagy, that ray spells have the ray as a target and not a single target per se. Altho, I guess, that is debatable still, whether those would qualify for spells with a single target (it's still only one subject being affected by the spell).

I am with Saeviomagy on that one, i.e. only spells that list Target: in their description should be eligible. Otherwise, you have all kinds of weirdness. Target is a clearly defined game mechanical term (cp. PHB p. 148), as opposed to e.g. Effect which includes ray spells. It is too bad that the feat description does not state this more clearly.

Oh, and for a cleric, hold person (spell level 2) seems a good choice for a chained spell.

 

[Shard O'Glase]

Ah, so the feat only works on a small list of save or die spells, and some beneficial spells, and actually doesn't work for any damaging spells. Or am I missing the one damaging spell with one target, that isn't touch or a ray. And they just put that line in about 1/2 the dice of damage for giggles.

I think way too many people are reading the letter of the law here and ignoring the intent.

 

[Shard O'Glase]

IMO, each missile should be halved (or not) individually. However, even if you insist on halving only the net -- then secondary targets would take 2d4+5 (half of 5d4 is 2.5d4, then round down as the feat instructs). That seems grossly overpowered IMO, as it means (essentially) adding TWICE your caster level in magic missiles which must be sent out to secondary targets. For a 7th level caster, the final net of 19d4+40 is BETTER than a 9th level wizard casting Cone of Cold -- by FAR. And Cone of Cold is a FIRTH level spell ... hence halving each missile. I *might* be inclined to let each missile act as it's own micro-chain, as the secondary targets then only recieve 1hp of damage, making the Chain Magic Missile sort of a "starburst" effect.

What when you use MM chained it effects all these targets for 19d4+40, but when using cone of cold it somehow is worse. Lets see 19d4+40 about 130 points of damage done spread out amougnst 8 targets. Cone of cold at 9th level, lets see it's an area of effect, lets be nice and say it only hits 4 people that's lets see 36d6 or 18d6 if everyone saves. So if everone saves it does a measly 63 ponts of damage. Lets actualy put it on even footing now, the cone hits all 8 targets. 72d6 or 36d6 on a save, if they all save 126 points of damage spread out. About the same as the chained MM. Now if no one saves it is 252 points of damage spread out, which blows the chained MM out of the water.

Even under the most lenient chain interpetations chain spell sucks for damaging spells. I'd be hard pressed to come up with a reason to use chain spell for any combat spells out there. Either the damage again under the lenient method just doesn't stack up, against spells of a similar level, or the save sucks so bad 1st level commoners make it with ease. About the only decent chained offensive spell is enervation. So why the rush to make it worse than it already is.

 

[KarinsDad]

Ah, so the feat only works on a small list of save or die spells, and some beneficial spells, and actually doesn't work for any damaging spells. Or am I missing the one damaging spell with one target, that isn't touch or a ray. And they just put that line in about 1/2 the dice of damage for giggles.

I think way too many people are reading the letter of the law here and ignoring the intent.

I'm with Shard (and I am typically a big letter of the law rules guy).

If the spell allows in any way, shape, or form (e.g. Dispel Magic) targeting a single target and it is not a touch spell, then you can chain it.

I'm also of the opinion that like the Empower Spell feat, any variable portion of the spell, not just damage, should be halved when it arcs. Even for spells like Enervation. But, I can see where YMMV on this. But to me, damage is damage, regardless of whether it is just hit point damage. Also, I do not think this feat should Mass Cure equally.

This is not a Mass feat, nor an Area Effect feat, it is a Chain feat.

The intent is to harm an opponent and then harm his friends a little less: just like Chain Lightning.

So, ray spells are eligible. Ranged Touch spells are eligible. And, any spell which can target a single creature, even if it can also be cast differently to target multiple creatures (such as Magic Missile or Flame Arrow) are eligible.

Otherwise, you might as well throw this feat onto the next to worthless heap with Toughness.

 

[Xarlen]

I'm with Shard and Karin.

THough, I don't see how you're comparing an MM to a Cone of Cold...

 

[AuraSeer]

If the spell allows in any way, shape, or form (e.g. Dispel Magic) targeting a single target and it is not a touch spell, then you can chain it.

Well, if I throw a blind kobold into the middle of an empty room, I can cast Fireball on him and not damage anyone else. So by your interpretation, Fireball is subject to chaining? Sorry, it doesn't work that way.

Chain Spell only works on spells that have a "Target" entry in their descriptor block, and which affect only a single creature. If it says "Effect" or "Area", then the spell does not target a creature and is not subject to chaining Note that this makes ray spells unchainable.

[Edited for typo.]

 

[Shard O'Glase]

I'm with Shard and Karin.

THough, I don't see how you're comparing an MM to a Cone of Cold...

Sorry I should of cut out the parts of his quote that didn't apply, I eddited my post so the response to MM chained v cone of cold makes more sense.

 

[Shard O'Glase]

Well, if I throw a blind kobold into the middle of an empty room, I can cast Fireball on him and not damage anyone else. So by your interpretation, Fireball is subject to chaining? Sorry, it doesn't work that way.

Chain Spell only works on spells that have a "Target" entry in their descriptor block, and which affect only a single creature. If it says "Effect" or "Area", then the spell does not target a creature and is not subject to chaining Note that this makes ray spells unchainable.

[Edited for typo.]

OK then find me the damaging spell this applies to. Just try to find one, I don't have my books so there may be one I am missing, but chances are there isn't even one damaging spell this feat would apply to under your interpretation. I'm kinda wierd this way but I sort of expect at least one spell to work for a feats primary purpose. And if there isn't one I make the gicantic leap of logic that maybe they screwed up on the wording of the spell, and I should instead go with the intent.

 

[Xarlen]

Well, there's Heat/Chill Metal (Although it'll do SO much damage for a 5th level spell ).

Melf's Acid Arrow (See above commentary).

And... that's all I can find.

 

[Thanee]

Yes, of course, spells that have an area of effect (i.e. fireball) can never be chained, but spells which can be cast on a single target (i.e. flame arrow) should be chainable then.

For ray spells, this is really a bit weird.

Bye
Thanee