A Paladin's Challenge

[Nibelung]

I just think that if the paladin needs to rush and get adjacent to his marked target, then why the power is ranged 5? No, javelin throw isn't worth it.

My bet is that the RAI is that the fighter should be the "wall" defender, and the paladin should be the "magnetic" defender. While the fighter put himself in the way of mobs, the paladin put a big red neon sign over his head saying "smash here".

Unfortunatelly, the RAW is ambiguous about this "end of your turn" thing, but we have a cutserv answer that says the paladin should engage in the same turn he challenged.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Unfortunatelly, the RAW is ambiguous about this "end of your turn" thing...

Really? I don't find it so...?

-Hyp.

 

[Nibelung]

Really? I don't find it so...?

-Hyp.

Every other effect says "the end of your next turn" or "the start of your next turn", or something like it. Why then the divine challenge text dont have a simples "at the end of the turn you called the challenge" or "at the end of your actual turn"?

I saw something like this on Fighter's Combat Superiority too. It's the only place in all book that say "when you strike", instead of "when you attack" or "when you hit".

 

[Hypersmurf]

Every other effect says "the end of your next turn" or "the start of your next turn", or something like it. Why then the divine challenge text dont have a simples "at the end of the turn you called the challenge" or "at the end of your actual turn"?

When you use a power that lasts until the end of the encounter, it doesn't need to specifiy "Until the end of the encounter in which you use the power", right?

And "end of your actual turn"? To distinguish it from all the turns you have that aren't actual turns?

Divine Challenge doesn't reference "your next turn", because it's this turn that is relevant.

p267 uses the "on your turn" wording: "You can normally take one standard action on your turn", "You can normally take minor actions only on your turn", etc. Would you prefer this to be reworded as "You can normally only take one standard action before the end of your actual turn"?

You can use Divine Challenge once per turn. On your turn, you must engage the target or challenge a different target. I see no ambiguity about "On your turn", here... if your turn is over, and on your turn, you didn't engage or challenge a different target, you suffer the consequences.

-Hyp.

 

[Nibelung]

Then why each 1d8 days someone open a topic asking about it on WotC forums?

And i still think that the RAI is to allow paladins to mark at distance. Just need to take a look at the preview "Escape from Sembia" sheets. In that one, the paladin just mark at distance and the mark disapear if he mark other opponent. They put a "disguised sustain" here because the paladin could mark and retreat to under a bunker, and the enemy take damage even if he's half-world of distance.

 

[Kordeth]

Then why each 1d8 days someone open a topic asking about it on WotC forums?

And i still think that the RAI is to allow paladins to mark at distance. Just need to take a look at the preview "Escape from Sembia" sheets. In that one, the paladin just mark at distance and the mark disapear if he mark other opponent. They put a "disguised sustain" here because the paladin could mark and retreat to under a bunker, and the enemy take damage even if he's half-world of distance.

Err, of course the RAI is to let paladins mark at a distance--that's how the power works. The power doesn't even require you to make a melee attack to sustain it--you can quite easily divine challenge a target 5 squares away and then stand back and plink away with a longbow every round to maintain the mark.

What paladins cannot do, and indeed the entire reason they reworded the power after those early playtest games, is mark the target and then run and hide. There's no other way around it.

 

[Danceofmasks]

Awhile back, I built this halfling paladin/warlock that could drop a tendrils of thuban, challenge, then run and hide.
Sustain every turn until the mob dies from the multidot.

 

[Nibelung]

The power doesn't even require you to make a melee attack to sustain it--you can quite easily divine challenge a target 5 squares away and then stand back and plink away with a longbow every round to maintain the mark.

Which a fighter can do too, but this dont mean that the mobs will be charging him if he do.

Paladins have FOUR encounter powers that have range over close burst 1: One in lvl 7, and 3 in epic levels. None of his at-wills are ranged. What this mean? That the paladin is a major melee class.

Now, why should a melee class take a ranged weapon to mark his target? And probly he will be smacked by 3 OAs if he do too, because he will probly be in a melee fight holding some other mobs with his thread area and his occupied square.

"Yes, but the fighter will be there in the same situation, and he cant mark other guy too"

But the fighter have class features that allow him to be a real meat shield. Combat Superiority dont allow most enemies to pass througt him, and he get a bonus to hit OAs.

Paladins do OA, and the mob pass. He can hold only one monster per time with his mark. How should be his advantage? 1) The auto-damage; 2) The ranged mark that brings the enemy to him and allow him to say "step away from my squishy friend with the pointy hat".
==================
Cutserv already said that you need to engage the same turn. I know this is the official rule. I'm just throwing some light in spots, so everyone can think about it. How anyone rules his table is not of my business.

 

[Hypersmurf]

And i still think that the RAI is to allow paladins to mark at distance.

It's a close burst 5, so he can mark from up to 5 squares away.

And then he needs to engage the target on his turn.

-Hyp.

 

[RefinedBean]

I always enjoyed the Divine Challenge / Hellish Rebuke combo instead. Damned if you do, damned if you don't...

/end threadjack