D&D 5E A simple houserule for martial/caster balance.

[dave2008]

Sure, can casters get limited to pulling doves out of their sleeves?

Fighters live in a world of magic and should incorporate that into their training. Dwarven smiths have been making plate armor for thousands of years... hell an individual dwarf smith can be making full plate for longer than it was even IN USE on Earth.

I'm not sure what your saying or suggesting. I am for empowering martials not tearing down magic users. My suggestion is not meant to limit what martials can do, but to push them beyond there limits.

However, I like to have options for playing D&D in a world with little or no magic too.

 

[Gammadoodler]

The problem that always come up with this is how does it become possible?

It's one thing to make it become possible by the rules, but what does it mean for it to become possible in the setting? Casters can do extraordinary things because they have magic (in fact we have a whole collection of casters based around the differing ways they have to get access to magic). So how does the Fighter jump really long distances? Is he harnessing his Chi? Is he learning to tap into the inherent magic of the world in his own way (like in Earthdawn), has he become so skilled he is slowly becoming one of the gods?

Basically, the issue here is that the implied setting doesn't really allow for the Fighter to have a clear reason why he can do such extraordinary things. So the implied setting has to change in some way if we want to give the Fighter these capabilities. Yet time and again I see people just wanting to change the mechanics and then complaining bitterly about the unsurprising pushback they get.

"Magic" is not answer to how questions. It is a signal that you don't have get an answer.

Saying something works "because of magic" is the same as saying something works "just because".

The problem is that people are unwilling to accept "just because" but are fine with "because magic".

 

[James Gasik]

Not sure. I have to say I have never had a sorcerer in my game, so I haven't had to adjudicate them.

So, in 3.x, there was concern over the stealth bomber wizard. By 6th level they had invisibility, fireball, fly, and could craft wands. Furthermore, the choices required to reach that point did not close off all other choices- so the wizard could be a stealth bomber and do other things. In 1e, I did not notice this issue. While wizards of similar level could make wands (at my table with house rules) I didn't have that issue then. I think that this was in part due to the general difficulty in getting a set of specific spells to so such. And, if you did, it would be the only thing you could do. This gets boring, especially when you are playing a class known for its flexibility.

(This is a one paragraph summary of a complex issue- yes, there are generalities present.)

In 5e, the most effective throttle on a wizard's power level continues to be the contents of their spellbook, and how quickly they are able to gain complementary spells. Especially gaining those spells along with others so they aren't a one-trick caster. After running a handful of games with 5-9th level wizards, I see that letting them gain two spells per level, plus research / buy / loot more trends towards wizard's performance overwhelming the fighters. (Ignoring magic items.) I think if that was restricted, it would control the power imbalance better. I don't recall off the top of my head the level of versatility of sorcerers.

(I also think that fighters should have the opportunity to select more ... situationally useful maneuvers as level increases, but that's literally a different thread.)

There's also the variant that takes a Wall of Iron, uses Shrink Item on it, then drops it on someone, dispelling the Shrink Item to the tune of 10d6 damage, no save. True Strike on the off chance you're asked to aim the wall accurately.

 

[Vaalingrade]

A caster with True Strike is already nerfed to hell.

 

[Baron Opal II]

It is definitely a complex problem, since the game has many moving parts.

 

[James Gasik]

A caster with True Strike is already nerfed to hell.

It has it's uses in 3e. 5e...yeah not so much.

 

[Jefe Bergenstein]

I'm not sure what your saying or suggesting. I am for empowering martials not tearing down magic users. My suggestion is not meant to limit what martials can do, but to push them beyond there limits.

However, I like to have options for playing D&D in a world with little or no magic too.

I'm saying that real world capabilities shouldnt apply to only a minority of D&D classes. If real world limitations apply to fighters until 10, they should apply to "casters" for the same, who can get by on sleight of hand and flash powder. Fighters dont exist in the real world. Sure, real world Olympians can can jump a certain distance. However they aren't even 1st level fighters. They're folks 1st level fighters save. They don't exist in a word with magic, and don't incorporate magic adjacent techniques in their training as fighters rightly should be depicted as doing, given the high magic worlds they inhabit.

D&D casters aren't appropriate PC's for a world with little or no magic. The sidekick caster might be (and probably would fit well with the fighter, rogue, etc). By PC full casters in a low magic world is like wanting to run a low superpowers game and letting the available characters be beat cop, ER nurse, ambulance diver, and Doctor Strange. Their power is even more disruptive when the world isn't geared to challenge them. Imagine running a no magic modern game, and one PC is a 5th level wizard. Charm, Invisibility, illusion, detect thoughts, speak with dead, etc are all highly impactful. The spotlight disparity is particularly exacerbated when only one type of character gets an extra helping of special and gets to dictate terms to the world.

 

[Mordhau]

"Magic" is not answer to how questions. It is a signal that you don't have get an answer.

Saying something works "because of magic" is the same as saying something works "just because".

The problem is that people are unwilling to accept "just because" but are fine with "because magic".

I've been over this before. Wizards get magic because they spend years studying arcane tombs and serving long apprenticeships and go to schools. Sorcerer's get magic because they have the blood of dragons (or whatever). Warlocks get magic by making pacts with powerful beings who grant them power.

Now granted 5e doesn't really care about setting or fiction at all - but there's something there.

It matters.

So how do Fighter's get magic?

There's various possible answers to that question. It's not an impossible question to answer (in fact it's easy) but the answer has consequences depending on what it is. If I look to the Wuxia tradition for inspiration for example, we find a genre where the Fighter's martial schools and teachers would be very important to them.

 

[Baron Opal II]

I've been over this before. Wizards get magic because they spend years studying arcane tombs and serving long apprenticeships and go to schools. Sorcerer's get magic because they have the blood of dragons (or whatever). Warlocks get magic by making pacts with powerful beings who grant them power.

So how do Fighter's get magic?

If I had to pick a "source", I would have to go with "ki". A fighter isn't going to throw lightning, but they could pick up a javelin and pierce a dragon's hide and maybe knock it to the ground for a round. This points towards wuxia style schools, and there were certainly fighting schools and warrior societies all through the Old World. There's some historical precedent to pattern off of.

 

[Gammadoodler]

I've been over this before. Wizards get magic because they spend years studying arcane tombs and serving long apprenticeships and go to schools. Sorcerer's get magic because they have the blood of dragons (or whatever). Warlocks get magic by making pacts with powerful beings who grant them power.

Now granted 5e doesn't really care about setting or fiction at all - but there's something there.

It matters.

So how do Fighter's get magic?

There's various possible answers to that question. It's not an impossible question to answer (in fact it's easy) but the answer has consequences depending on what it is. If I look to the Wuxia tradition for inspiration for example, we find a genre where the Fighter's martial schools and teachers would be very important to them.

The thing is that you don't have to assume that they need magic to do whatever extraordinary, supernatural things they do.

"They just are that strong/fast/skilled" is just as valid a reason as "they have magic." Each statement provides just as much information to answer the "how" question.

Why should they be treated differently?

From a narrative perspective, how they get to be so strong/fast/skillful matters to the character but it really doesn't have anything to do with the abilities they "should" have.

At the end of the day, it's all fantasy.