I also like this. Adapting the spells to what your game world would "reasonably expect" X class to do makes a lot of sense.At the end of the day it's probably easier to just narrow down and tighten up the individual spell lists for each spellcasting class than it is to try and re-work the entire system so that the "too powerful" spells get knocked back.
As has been said, there are "miraculous" types of magic at most spell levels of the game. So if you really want to tone it all down... just make spell lists of like 8 spells per level and hand-select which eight spells are the most acceptable for a lower-powered magic system. I mean after all... that's pretty much how many spells were available to select from in in the B/X boxes... eight rather meh spells.
+snip great suggestions+
Again, you take out the spells that can eliminate injuries received from creatures like Lesser Restoration, the more powerful attack spells like Blindness/Deafness, and ones that are overlapping what other classes are there for like Find Traps and Locate Object (more of a Wizard spell.) You keep doing this for all the classes and you will end up with a much more subtle magic system that isn't just masses of things that go boom.
Just an idea.
yeah the problem is if you set back the casters too much (and god knows I think they need to fall out of the nerf tree and hit a bunch of nerf branches on the way down) you end up with an overall less fun game.I think just cutting back the spell slots per day would be enough to "nerf" casters. If you're worried about cantrip spamming, you could simply remove all damage cantrips; this would force casters to use an actual weapon for repeated damage.
I find this odd coming from someone who said they would never play D&D with the nerfed progression I posted (different thread) where full casters capped at 6th level spells for level 20...The solution is simple.
Ban full casters.
Feature part casters.
This might work for our spell system since we stopped using spell slots at levels and just spell levels overall (basically spell "points").Speaking of recharge, I've also seen a system (can't remember which), that used spell points for casting, and then had those spell points regenerate at a rate of like 1 point per hour (or whatever it was). It removes the 5 minute workday, because you can't just call it a "long rest" and get everything back. You have to both pace yourself with casting, and then if you want to save up, it takes time.
For magic, I like that better than just "I sleep and now can cast all my spells".
Heh, I wouldnt play a setting that banned full casters. But at least I can continue to play D&D, by choosing a different setting that features full casters.I find this odd coming from someone who said they would never play D&D with the nerfed progression I posted (different thread) where full casters capped at 6th level spells for level 20...![]()
Oh, got it. Okay... just checking.Heh, I wouldnt play a setting that banned full casters. But at least I can continue to play D&D, by choosing a different setting that features full casters.
When playing 4e, my friend wanted to DM a 3e game. I told him I couldnt play 3e because it lacked cantrips. I play a mage to do magic. If I would want to shoot crossbows, I would pick a different class. We negotiated a compromise. But the point is, I have zero interest in playing a subpar game or getting shut out of combat because the DM hates magic.Oh, got it. Okay... just checking.
What about a progression where you got cantrips, 1st, and 2nd level spells in tier 1 (as is), then just 3rd and 4th in tier 2, moved 5th to 11th level to match Extra Attack (2), and also got 6th in tier 3, and then reserved 7th-9th for tier 4? Maybe put 7th in tier 3...?
Also, I've been playing around with progression where you get more spells for levels 1-5, but instead of having multiple 6th+ level spells, you only get 1 per long rest, but what you have access to keeps increasing?
Ok...But the point is, I have zero interest in playing a subpar game or getting shut out of combat because the DM hates magic.
renaming the artificer your wizard with fighter (eldtitch knight) an rogue (arcane tricksters) being just a bit behind does sound pretty good... I think it is at least worth exploring as table rule for a campaign or so.The solution is simple.
Ban full casters.
Feature part casters.
The difference is, both the halfcasters and their spells participate fully in combat. There are no subpar classes.So what is the difference between only using half-casters and slowing down full casters progression to a more moderate level???
Is it the bells and whistles that half casters have over full casters??
I think you need to beef up the other things full casters can do if you are going to cut them down to half caster...So what is the difference between only using half-casters and slowing down full casters progression to a more moderate level???
Is it the bells and whistles that half casters have over full casters??
They still would.The difference is, both the halfcasters and their spells participate fully in combat.
There still isn't.There are no subpar classes.
No, casters as the are are currently overpowered.So far, your versions of the fullcaster Wizard are significantly underpowered.
I am restoring the balance.Lacking balance.
Giving them more slots/ spells would seem to compensate them pretty well.I think you need to beef up the other things full casters can do if you are going to cut them down to half caster...
I'd use the Artificer as a base spellcaster, using its features to give actual features to full spellcasters, things like Flash of Genius is perfect for a wizard, spell-storing items could be a high level feature (say lvl 11 or 14 ish) for main spellcaster (wizard, cleric, druid). Replicate magic items would also be a nice feature to compensate for slower spell progression. I'd also remove damaging cantrips in favor of majoring the upcasting of damage spells OR have them use limited spell slots.Giving them more slots/ spells would seem to compensate them pretty well.
Imaging using a half-caster spell progression, but doubling all the spell slots?
level | Cantrips | 1st | 2nd | 3rd | 4th | 5th |
1 | 4 | 3 | ||||
2 | 4 | 4 | ||||
3 | 4 | 4 | ||||
4 | 4 | 4 | ||||
5 | 5 | 5 | 2 | |||
6 | 5 | 5 | 3 | |||
7 | 5 | 5 | 3 | |||
8 | 5 | 5 | 3 | |||
9 | 6 | 5 | 3 | 2 | ||
10 | 6 | 5 | 4 | 2 | ||
11 | 6 | 5 | 4 | 3 | ||
12 | 6 | 5 | 4 | 3 | ||
13 | 6 | 6 | 4 | 3 | 2 | |
14 | 6 | 6 | 5 | 3 | 3 | |
15 | 6 | 6 | 5 | 4 | 3 | |
16 | 6 | 6 | 5 | 4 | 3 | |
17 | 6 | 6 | 5 | 4 | 4 | 2 |
18 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 4 | 4 | 3 |
19 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 5 | 4 | 3 |
20 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 5 | 4 | 4 |
Yes, definitely.So what is the difference between only using half-casters and slowing down full casters progression to a more moderate level???
Is it the bells and whistles that half casters have over full casters??
Ok, honestly, I can't tell from the tone of the post if you are being genuine or sarcastic...?I look forward to seeing all your exciting third party products on the DM's Guild soon. That, or talking about your homebrew, is all this thread can possibly be about.
Oh, I'm quite sincere. I just want to make it clear that homebrew and/or third party products are, imo, the only path to this kind of content. WotC is way too corporate to touch any of it.Ok, honestly, I can't tell from the tone of the post if you are being genuine or sarcastic...?
I could see it going either way, considering a lot of the both positive and negative feedback.
As for what this thread is about... well, it can digress to whatever, but since I am the OP (and it got necro'd a bit, the stuff in the OP isn't where I am at anymore...), it makes sense the main gist would be about the homebrew with others offering their versions or input.![]()