D&D 5E A Slower Caster Spell Progression and other Suggestions

[Yaarel]

The solution is simple.

Ban full casters.

Feature part casters.

 

[Cruentus]

Speaking of recharge, I've also seen a system (can't remember which), that used spell points for casting, and then had those spell points regenerate at a rate of like 1 point per hour (or whatever it was). It removes the 5 minute workday, because you can't just call it a "long rest" and get everything back. You have to both pace yourself with casting, and then if you want to save up, it takes time.

For magic, I like that better than just "I sleep and now can cast all my spells".

At the end of the day it's probably easier to just narrow down and tighten up the individual spell lists for each spellcasting class than it is to try and re-work the entire system so that the "too powerful" spells get knocked back.

As has been said, there are "miraculous" types of magic at most spell levels of the game. So if you really want to tone it all down... just make spell lists of like 8 spells per level and hand-select which eight spells are the most acceptable for a lower-powered magic system. I mean after all... that's pretty much how many spells were available to select from in in the B/X boxes... eight rather meh spells.

+snip great suggestions+

Again, you take out the spells that can eliminate injuries received from creatures like Lesser Restoration, the more powerful attack spells like Blindness/Deafness, and ones that are overlapping what other classes are there for like Find Traps and Locate Object (more of a Wizard spell.) You keep doing this for all the classes and you will end up with a much more subtle magic system that isn't just masses of things that go boom.

Just an idea.

I also like this. Adapting the spells to what your game world would "reasonably expect" X class to do makes a lot of sense.

I always think about things like "blasty spells" - magic missile, firebolt, eldritch blast, melf's acid arrow, etc. Why have umpteen different blasty spells? Why not an "Arcane Blast" or whatever, and then have the wizard be able to cast it and "craft it". "I'm casting Arcane Blast, imbuing it with fire." or "I'm casting Arcane Blast and imbuing it with lightning". Maybe the Blast is just "force" at first level, but if you cast it at second level, you can attach a "fire, or lightning, or force, or cold, etc.) to it. Cuts down on a ton of bloat.

 

[Bacon Bits]

Personally, I'd rather eliminate 7th through 9th level spells entirely, then bring back 4e style rituals for some magic like resurrections. There's very little content there that really needs saving. 99% of it is nostalgia and spell names. Anything else that people would cry about losing would be cried about because it's broken and abusive. The only effect really worth saving at 9th level is Wish, and that's because that spell in particular reaches sacred cow territory. You can easily make that a capstone ability of one class or it's own special ritual.

Some effects could be pushed down to 6th level (e.g., regenerate), but overall it's not a segment of the game that really benefits the game for existing.

 

[HammerMan]

I think just cutting back the spell slots per day would be enough to "nerf" casters. If you're worried about cantrip spamming, you could simply remove all damage cantrips; this would force casters to use an actual weapon for repeated damage.

yeah the problem is if you set back the casters too much (and god knows I think they need to fall out of the nerf tree and hit a bunch of nerf branches on the way down) you end up with an overall less fun game.

I think the warlock got it right (if you balance around it) 1 then2 and at mid high levels 3 but finally 4 spells per short rest from a small amount known but always at peek performance with a good at will set of abilities and mini feat invocations that can give both more options for spells, some leveled spells at will, or just little cool magic things... maybe mix it up with artificer infusions and I think you have a much more balanced spell caster.

 

[DND_Reborn]

The solution is simple.

Ban full casters.

Feature part casters.

I find this odd coming from someone who said they would never play D&D with the nerfed progression I posted (different thread) where full casters capped at 6th level spells for level 20...

 

[DND_Reborn]

Speaking of recharge, I've also seen a system (can't remember which), that used spell points for casting, and then had those spell points regenerate at a rate of like 1 point per hour (or whatever it was). It removes the 5 minute workday, because you can't just call it a "long rest" and get everything back. You have to both pace yourself with casting, and then if you want to save up, it takes time.

For magic, I like that better than just "I sleep and now can cast all my spells".

This might work for our spell system since we stopped using spell slots at levels and just spell levels overall (basically spell "points").

Maybe a caster can recover 1 spell point per level per long rest? So, if you used the standard RAW progression you would have 89 spell points at level 20, and it would take four+ days to get them all back.

It makes casting a 9th level spell costly, because even if you have "89 points" (effectively) available, those 9 points represent nearly half of what you can recover in a day.

I think me likey.

 

[Yaarel]

I find this odd coming from someone who said they would never play D&D with the nerfed progression I posted (different thread) where full casters capped at 6th level spells for level 20...

Heh, I wouldnt play a setting that banned full casters. But at least I can continue to play D&D, by choosing a different setting that features full casters.

 

[DND_Reborn]

Heh, I wouldnt play a setting that banned full casters. But at least I can continue to play D&D, by choosing a different setting that features full casters.

Oh, got it. Okay... just checking.

What about a progression where you got cantrips, 1st, and 2nd level spells in tier 1 (as is), then just 3rd and 4th in tier 2, moved 5th to 11th level to match Extra Attack (2), and also got 6th in tier 3, and then reserved 7th-9th for tier 4? Maybe put 7th in tier 3...?

Also, I've been playing around with progression where you get more spells for levels 1-5, but instead of having multiple 6th+ level spells, you only get 1 per long rest, but what you have access to keeps increasing?

 

[Yaarel]

Oh, got it. Okay... just checking.

What about a progression where you got cantrips, 1st, and 2nd level spells in tier 1 (as is), then just 3rd and 4th in tier 2, moved 5th to 11th level to match Extra Attack (2), and also got 6th in tier 3, and then reserved 7th-9th for tier 4? Maybe put 7th in tier 3...?

Also, I've been playing around with progression where you get more spells for levels 1-5, but instead of having multiple 6th+ level spells, you only get 1 per long rest, but what you have access to keeps increasing?

When playing 4e, my friend wanted to DM a 3e game. I told him I couldnt play 3e because it lacked cantrips. I play a mage to do magic. If I would want to shoot crossbows, I would pick a different class. We negotiated a compromise. But the point is, I have zero interest in playing a subpar game or getting shut out of combat because the DM hates magic.

 

[DND_Reborn]

But the point is, I have zero interest in playing a subpar game or getting shut out of combat because the DM hates magic.

Ok...

Nothing I just asked suggested anything of the sort. In fact, my proposal would allow casters more spells per day, allowing them to use actual spells more often instead of relying on cantrips. The only difference is the reduction in the uber-spells (6th+) to one per day...

If that is "a subpar game or getting shut out of combat because the DM hares magic" I won't bother you any more.