D&D 5E Ability check DC based on level

Why is it better to maintain the swinginess in combat if it is a problem in skill usage?
It wasn't swinginess in general... it was the swing between different PCs.

The difference in attack bonus between PCs was usually at most like three points. Most PCs would have a +3 in their primary ability score plus their prof bonus plus then maybe another point or two for some other feature or item. So the PCs were all like +5 to +8 in attack bonus, which meant the die roll was much less a factor in how often each PC would hit compared to each other. It was much harder to notice during the game if/when the low attack bonus PC was hitting (due to the die) more often than the higher attack bonus PC.

But when we talk about skills... a PC's ability score + proficiency bonus for any skill could much wider... say be between -1 to like +7 or +8 (especially if you brought Expertise into it.) So when you add in the d20 to those numbers... you could get times when it was very noticeable when the -1 PC would succeed on a roll when when the +7 PC didn't. For example the low score PC rolls a 17 and subtracts 1 for a 16, while the high score PC rolls a 4 and only gets to 11. For things like skills (where the amount of rolls at our table for any one skill occured MUCH less often than the total amount of combat rolls), it became much more noticeable and memorable when the good PC blew it while the bad PC succeeded. And that didn't feel right.

Had we made Perception checks with the same frequency that we made attack rolls... over time the averages would come into play and the +7 Perception PC would be blowing the -1 Perception PC out of the water more often than not. It would feel like the proper person was succeeding when they should. But because we weren't making any one specific skill check with the same frequency as attack rolls... the opportunity for a botched high PC coupled with a massive low PC success was much more likely to be something that occurred and just felt wrong. And thus... by rolling 2d10 instead and condensing most die rolls into the 8-12 range... when you'd add in the flat bonus it reduced the swing that we didn't want-- high score PCs failing on checks that low score PCs made.

It was really all about table perception and what we all saw of what was happening when we sat around it. A bell curve die roll with a wide modifier bonus meant the better people made checks / worse people didn't more often. A flat distribution die roll with a narrow modifier bonus meant everybody was failing and succeeding relatively evenly all the time (which made sense since they all had just about equal modifiers give or take a point or two.) And this is admittedly something that is quite possibly specific to our table and does not / would not bother others. Which is fine. No solution will be a solution for everyone.
 
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That makes sense but I would be inclined to say that if there's no room for the swinginess, there's probably no need for the roll in the first place. Picking a lock is a thing that, given time, any trained character can probably do -- unless it is so complicated that only a true master can do it. In either case, a roll seems inappropriate unless pressed for time or under fire. And if pressed for time or under fire, I don't see why the skill use should be any more reliable than, say, aim.
Actually the time for a potential swingy bad result is of course when under pressure. I thought of that and considered rolling 2d10 and 1d20 and taking the worst if under duress. Kind of a disadvantage of sorts.

I don't agree though with one of your premises. I think there are millions of locks out there and some will baffle one set of people and others will baffle another set. It's why you get one try at a lock in my book. The question being answered is...can you master this lock. Now if the lock is ridiculously easy then don't roll. If you prefer a take 10 kind of attitude then by all means that works too. It all depends on how you classify locks and how you view them in general. I don't think even the best thief though is as reliable as a modern day locksmith with all his tools.
 

I don't agree though with one of your premises. I think there are millions of locks out there and some will baffle one set of people and others will baffle another set. It's why you get one try at a lock in my book. The question being answered is...can you master this lock. Now if the lock is ridiculously easy then don't roll. If you prefer a take 10 kind of attitude then by all means that works too. It all depends on how you classify locks and how you view them in general. I don't think even the best thief though is as reliable as a modern day locksmith with all his tools.
This of course leads to a different question, which is probably beyond the scope of this thread: what is the point of the lock in the first place? Why is it there? Why is there a chance of failure? What purpose does it serve if it is opened? What purpose does it serve if it isn't? And do the answers change when we ask through the lens of game play versus the lens of narrative versus the lens of realism/simulation/verisimilitude?
 

For things like skills (where the amount of rolls at our table for any one skill occured MUCH less often than the total amount of combat rolls), it became much more noticeable and memorable when the good PC blew it while the bad PC succeeded. And that didn't feel right.

See to me explaining the unusual success of an unskilled character next to the failure of an expert character is one of D&D's most fun and inspiring narrative opportunities. If it really bothers you you should probably just use passive scores and skip this whole rolling thing, use 2 d10s in place of a d20 for less swinginess, or kill the fun some other way.
 

This of course leads to a different question, which is probably beyond the scope of this thread: what is the point of the lock in the first place? Why is it there? Why is there a chance of failure? What purpose does it serve if it is opened? What purpose does it serve if it isn't? And do the answers change when we ask through the lens of game play versus the lens of narrative versus the lens of realism/simulation/verisimilitude?
No doubt it matters. I would argue that the fact characters spend a scarce resource on skill ranks in open lock is an argument that all locks should not be either openable or not openable. In that case why spend skill ranks on open lock?

For me, I am in the latter camp though I think realism is not really something that matters very much to me. I prefer the game to be a player skill challenge where those players act as their characters and view the world through their characters eyes. No metagaming for instance. But part of that skill challenge is fair play. So locks vary in quality and you can't open every single one.
 

That is correct.

He clearly was looking to avoid an edition war conversation that actively didn’t answer his question but instead told him the idea is wrong on its face. See the first response to his question for reference.

Then he would have to break down why he disagreed, have a long drawn out conversation about why “Shrodinger’s x” is a complete misunderstanding of the concept of subjective DCs, how keyword Fire effects can actually ignite materials, maybe get into a Dissociative Mechanics conversation, the nature of RPGs, what it means to actually “be D&D”, are HPs meat, Damage on a Miss/what is a to-hit roll, are Skill Challenges just an exercise in fiction-disconnected dice rolling, and on and on and on and on and on and on and on (I was thinking about copy/pasting this for an hour).

So good job by the OP for (a) not engaging with the sort of non-answer in post 2 and (b) finding his answer himself.
This. Just needed some specific information, not a lecture on why I don't need the information.
 

Now, if you're party can routinely leverage Bardic Inspiration or Guidance, then this gets skewed a bit, but that's really a matter of how easy is it to anticipate a challenge and leverage those abilities.
Honestly it skews it quite a bit. Between my 9th level players bard and cleric giving bonuses, and various ways to get advantage, I see DC 30s made pretty often at my table. For me it’s DC 35 that’s the real “nearly impossible”
 

See to me explaining the unusual success of an unskilled character next to the failure of an expert character is one of D&D's most fun and inspiring narrative opportunities. If it really bothers you you should probably just use passive scores and skip this whole rolling thing, use 2 d10s in place of a d20 for less swinginess, or kill the fun some other way.
Oh of course! If someone doesn't like something that you do, the MOST OBVIOUS thing is for them to just ELIMINATE the thing altogether in its entirety, rather than just make a small change that solves the problem! How silly of me! Glad to have such incite!

rolls eyes
 


Was that really necessary? We are all trying to have fun. I find using 2d10 makes the game better and thus more fun. No fun was harmed in that declaration.

Well the core purpose of 2d10 is to reduce the commonness of something I personally find fun, namely lots of extreme results. This was "the fun" I was referring to the death of. Whether the overall fun of the game is served is a different matter entirely. I apologize if it sounded like I was accusing anyone of threatening that.

Oh of course! If someone doesn't like something that you do, the MOST OBVIOUS thing is for them to just ELIMINATE the thing altogether in its entirety, rather than just make a small change that solves the problem! How silly of me! Glad to have such incite!

rolls eyes

Well it does sound like it was probably more "incite" than "insight", so I'm sorry.

I hope you find whatever form of random-but-not-quite-so-random makes you happy.
 

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