D&D 5E Ability Score Increases (I've changed my mind.)

[Chaosmancer]

No. Because I have never claimed that every half-orc should be able to be stronger than every elf, merely that if the half-orc decides to focus on the niche of their species they will be better at this than the elf. And vice versa with the elf and dex.

But if an elf wants to focus on being charismatic they should be terrible at it?

 

[Scribe]

Great, so you aren't paying them for races. The mystery of what you are paying them for moves on.

Huh? I pay them, if they provide what I want. If they do not maintain the systems, or attributes, or design path under which 5e released and was successfully being added to, I wont pay them for the content they provide.

Unless I am misunderstanding you, is this not self explanatory?

 

[Chaosmancer]

Huh? I pay them, if they provide what I want. If they do not maintain the systems, or attributes, or design path under which 5e released and was successfully being added to, I wont pay them for the content they provide.

Unless I am misunderstanding you, is this not self explanatory?

Well, I don't know, you seemed confused before.

In a case of a new game, new setting, or what have you? I'd agree. Absolutely less work, less content to provide, if Wizards would just say 'nope 2/1, do whatever.'

Which goes back to what I've said many times, what am I paying for?

In the case of these other race/subrace options that we have had for years, or in previous additions? The work is done.

I fully anticipate 6e will just be floating, do whatever, and thats 100% fine.

If you aren't paying for races, and the stuff you care about is already done... then we're done here right? You already have everything you want.

And if you really want to pay someone to tell you ASIs to give rabbitfolk or owlfolk or fey hobgoblins, I can provide you with my Paypal information and you can pay me. I'll only charge $1 per race.

 

[Micah Sweet]

They cut it for me.

Personally, I don't get this idea that only a +1 Dexterity over humans is enough to make them nonhuman, when, as @Hussar has pointed out many times, they are practically immortal, innately magical gender-fluid beings that never sleep and relive their past lives every night.

Sure, I get it, "we never see that in gameplay" but we see them being half an ASI better and Dex and suddenly they are bizarre aliens completely unrelated to humans?

There are a lot of things we can do with traits, feats, culture, tradition, language. Good Lord, think about what we could do with just the idea that the Elven language doesn't have a word for death? That their word for dying is closer to the idea of "passing through town". Go back and instead of saying that Planetars serve all gods, make some unique elven Celestials, who are the guardians who watch over their people. There are hundreds of things we could do to make them unique without having to try and shoe-horn in a +2.5% advantage over humans in dexterity checks.

And that would be great, if there was any mechanical weight to any of that.

 

[Scribe]

If you aren't paying for races, and the stuff you care about is already done... then we're done here right? You already have everything you want.

And if you really want to pay someone to tell you ASIs to give rabbitfolk or owlfolk or fey hobgoblins, I can provide you with my Paypal information and you can pay me. I'll only charge $1 per race.

No I'm not confused, but I would agree we are done.

I can apply my own ASI modifiers and re-write some of the rules if I care to based on the UA, thanks for the offer however.

I almost certainly wont (based on what I know of the contents currently) buy the book though so its largely irrelevant.

 

[Yaarel]

And that would be great, if there was any mechanical weight to any of that.

I agree, mechanics must match flavor. And viceversa.

For the same reason, when there are different narratives going on within the same race, likewise there needs to be different mechanics going on to match them.

Floating ASIs satisfies this need.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

Because they're useful tools for measuring things in-game.

But you actually don't seem to want to sue them to measure things...

They are not the end-all and be-all of a character.

Sure.

Oh, so here theme is important! It's not important when a scary half-orc can shrug off a killing blow, but it's suddenly important now?

It was important then too. It is a really cool feature. It just has nothing to do with how strong orcs are.

Speaking of which, loxodon (elephant-people, if you're not aware) are bigger and heavier than goliaths and get no Strength bonus at all--but a Strength 10 loxodon can lift a halfling in its trunk, and as a race they get Powerful Build. Meanwhile, both slender githyanki and short dwarfs get +2 Strength. Centaurs also have +2 Strength, even though "logically" their human arms shouldn't be particularly strong. And orcs are only a bit larger than the average human, but they get both a Strength bonus and Powerful Build.

This is why I don't care about the ASIs. They're often entirely random or have weak justifications. And that's not even getting into mental stats.

Yeah, fair. I actually think that some of the official ASI assignments are weird too and do not agree with them. And that's part of why I've said in couple of posts that they're somewhat poorly handled. But I still like the concept.

Plus, of course, ideas about what a race is like may change as time goes on. In 1e, half-orcs were specced as assassins, not warriors. I don't think they could even be barbarians back then. Who knows what half-orcs will look like by the time 6th or 7th edition comes out?

Yes, sure. And I think the removing of ASIs will affect those future concepts. And some of those archetypes we now think as obvious will vanish. Its not necessarily a bad thing, but if you like them it might be.

Sure. A person who focuses on their niche will be better than someone who doesn't. So why should an orc who doesn't focus on strength have to be better than or almost as good as someone a non-orc who does?

They aren't...

All elves have Fey Heritage, Trance, Keen Senses, and Elf Weapon Training. Therefore, all elf PCs will resemble the rest of their species.

Sure, in some ways.

Because D&D isn't a point-buy game like GURPS where you can buy any traits you want for your character?

But that is the direction floating ASIs is taking it to.

Because everyone has the same six stats but they all have different traits, and no matter what you might want to think, ASIs and traits are actually very different things?

No they aren't. It just happens that some things are easier to measure with ASIs and some with traits and in other ways. And what those things are is just due what things D&D decided to measure with ability scores decades ago.

Because historically, halflings don't have wings, so talk to your DM if you want to play one who does and I'm pretty sure that in the old-old Spelljammer comic there was a human with wings so there's precedent.

And historically half orcs were stronger than halflings. Same thing.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

But if an elf wants to focus on being charismatic they should be terrible at it?

No one likes elves, everyone knows they're dicks!

 

[Bill Zebub]

Well, in my game I start with traditional archetypes and cultures and go from there. The game seems to moving away from those things in favor of a "mix and match" philosophy, both in mechanics and lore. THAT's what I have an issue with. The official presentation is moving in a direction I just dont care for.

Earlier in the thread somebody compared floating ASIs to GURPS. Or, at least, the parade of horrible would end with something "that might as well be GURPS".

Which I find funny, because I specifically don't like GURPS, and in general I don't like a la carte games. Heck, I don't even like multiclassing...especially "dipping"...for the same reason.

But, in my opinion, floating ASIs have nothing to do with a la carte. It doesn't change the steps in character creation, and doesn't result in any more options, in an absolute sense, than with fixed ASIs. It's just that many of those choices no longer force a trade-off between character concept and optimization. Because I, personally, want both flexibility in character concept and optimization. And I would also like to see other people show up to the table with non-standard characters.

 

[Micah Sweet]

I agree, mechanics must match flavor. And viceversa.

For the same reason, when there are different narratives going on within the same race, likewise there needs to be different mechanics going on to match them.

Floating ASIs satisfies this need.

Please show me a non-elf race where different narratives necessitate floating ASIs.