D&D 5E Ability Score Increases (I've changed my mind.)

[Chaosmancer]

Yes. If they got access to those as racial abilities it would be nonsensical. Luckily, they don't and only have the same LEARNED access that everyone else does, so it makes perfect sense.

It is always amusing how razor thin the line is with you. Of course elves, who in older editions got a con penalty, make perfect sense to get a feat called tough, because of course you can just LEARN how to be tougher. And who better to learn it than elves? Certainly they also would learn it equally well as dwarves, right?

They have a connection. Dex and dex abilities refer to one another. You don't get to have it both ways. Either it works that way like you've been arguing or it does.

Then what ability is longsword training tied to? I'd say strength and elves don't get a strength bonus.

Oh, about about proficiency with Perception, that would be wisdom right? Most elves don't get a bonus to wisdom.

Oh, how about that Shadar-Kai magical teleportation. Magic is really broad, they would just need Intelligence, Wisdom, or Charisma, more likely charisma or wisdom since it is a blessing from a more powerful entity. They get none of those.

So, here are a whole bunch of abilies... and no associated bonuses. Let's check out dwarves. They have Stonecunning, an explicitly intelligence History based ability. Therefore they must have a bonus to intelligence or it would be nonsensical, right? And yet....

Huh, maybe it DOES work like I've been arguing.

If the bold is what you think, then you didn't understand. It had nothing to do with commitment.

You didn't want it to be 100%, you wanted wiggle room. They would be only 70% the same exact race... and yet, they aren't. We have literal evidence to the contrary, that you refuse to acknowledge because I "don't understand" enough for you to even bother addressing.

My PCs care about their races and belong to them, and since I'm the roleplaying that, I care about those things as well.

My PCs aren't metagaming and know about Dexterity scores, so I don't need to roleplay that.

 

[Morrus]

Story of this goddamn forum. No wonder y'all so out of touch.

Also even if you people aren't, WotC is, and they're a huge part of the demographic that WotC is catering future releases to, so uh, keep malding I guess.

I think after 14 warnings, you’re done on this ‘goddamn forum’.

 

[Chaosmancer]

2. I'm tired of everybody 's stats being so darn high. My group rolls, which in practice means people end up with high stats where they want them, plus the racial ASI. It just gets worse from there.

Bouncing off this for a second on a tangent, I think another thing that I'd like to see, just since we are talking about ability scores, is to revisit the rankings for DCs

Currently (going off of memory) it is:
Easy -> 10
Medium -> 15
Hard -> 20
Nearly Impossible -> 25

And, if you have a +0 or a +1, or you aren't proficient, then this scale is okay. It is trivial for a high level rogue to get a 27 on a check every. single. time. And if you can always pull off the nearly impossible... then it doesn't feel impossible.

And most things in the official books are in the range of 10 to 15, and since a +6 or +7 isn't hard to get, this starts feeling a little too easy. But the scale stays low so that the person with a +1 isn't faced with something actually impossible.

It is a weird balancing act that I don't think quite hit home.

 

[MGibster]

It is unusual (although not unique) to see someone revisit his or her opinions, and admit to a change in how one looks at something...both in life in general, but especially on Internet forums. My Hatmatter hat is off to you, M. Gibster for such honesty and follow-through.

All part of my ploy to lull you all into a false sense of security before I strike!

 

[Maxperson]

It is always amusing how razor thin the line is with you. Of course elves, who in older editions got a con penalty, make perfect sense to get a feat called tough, because of course you can just LEARN how to be tougher. And who better to learn it than elves? Certainly they also would learn it equally well as dwarves, right?

You mean the feat that gave you luck, skill, divine, etc. hit points? Yeah, you were tougher, but tougher =/= more con. And yes, you can learn to be tougher. That's what skill is.

Then what ability is longsword training tied to? I'd say strength and elves don't get a strength bonus.

Or a strength penalty. It's not a racial ABILITY. It's simply a cultural norm for the race to learn it.

Oh, about about proficiency with Perception, that would be wisdom right? Most elves don't get a bonus to wisdom.

More culturally learned skills?

Oh, how about that Shadar-Kai magical teleportation. Magic is really broad, they would just need Intelligence, Wisdom, or Charisma, more likely charisma or wisdom since it is a blessing from a more powerful entity. They get none of those.

You mean the ability given to them by the Raven Queen? Gifts from the gods are not stat dependent.

So, here are a whole bunch of abilies... and no associated bonuses.

In large part because none of them are racial. All but one are learned and the last one is a gift from a goddess.

Let's check out dwarves. They have Stonecunning, an explicitly intelligence History based ability. Therefore they must have a bonus to intelligence or it would be nonsensical, right? And yet....

False Equivalences are false. Stonecunning does not make the dwarves come across as wiser, smarter, or more enduring. An ability that makes elves more dexterous than other races would.

Here's a valid example of what I'm talking about. If dwarves were given the ability to endure a lot more than other races, which implies a much greater con, but yet had no con bonus.

Huh, maybe it DOES work like I've been arguing.

Or else not. None of your examples is in any way a counter example to what I have been saying. Not one.

My PCs aren't metagaming and know about Dexterity scores, so I don't need to roleplay that.

Nobody said otherwise. My PC knows that elves are more graceful(dexterous) as a race than humans, though. That's a fact.

 

[MGibster]

What about Thor's hammer? Arthur's sword? I like the idea that the stories the PCs create can be told through their distinctive magical items

I'm totally cool with fun unique magic items like those. What I grew to dislike about AD&D was that my character had to have X items in Y slots to remain viable at Z levels.

 

[Maxperson]

I'm totally cool with fun unique magic items like those. What I grew to dislike about AD&D was that my character had to have X items in Y slots to remain viable at Z levels.

That was 3e. AD&D didn't really have requirements other than a magic sword for fighting types.

 

[Scribe]

I'm totally cool with fun unique magic items like those. What I grew to dislike about AD&D was that my character had to have X items in Y slots to remain viable at Z levels.

I've always seen it as part of the adventuring progression. You must go acquire the items which allow you to defeat the great X, which you find in this dungeon that you and your friends must clear out..

Also, gives a way to burn gold.

 

[MGibster]

That was 3e. AD&D didn't really have requirements other than a magic sword for fighting types.

Fair enough. It's been more than twenty years!

 

[Bill Zebub]

As much as I think racial ASIs are poor design, if I had to choose between them and magic shop(pe)s, I would enthusiastically take the racial ASIs. I can't think of anything that spoils the feel of the game (for me) more than stores that sell magic items.