Ability Scores - Should they increase?

[Li Shenron]

I'm really surprised at the opposition to rising ability scores here. I thought that was one of the best changes in 3.X and 4e D&D from their predecessors.

It's not the increasing which creates problems. It's the going far beyond human natural capabilities that does.

If you factor magic in the process, you can't deny that with magic a character could indeed become stronger than a tyrannosaurus. But the basic ability scores contain no magic, even tho there are magical ways to augment them.

Maybe the difference is mostly cosmetic, but not everyone likes playing a superheroes game.

 

[MerricB]

I'm really surprised at the opposition to rising ability scores here. I thought that was one of the best changes in 3.X and 4e D&D from their predecessors.

I've played a lot of high-level 3E and 4E (including 21st level 3E and 30th level 4E), so the problems with ability scores that have become too far apart due to score increases have become very apparent.

 

[billd91]

I've played a lot of high-level 3E and 4E (including 21st level 3E and 30th level 4E), so the problems with ability scores that have become too far apart due to score increases have become very apparent.

An answer to that may be more multiple-attribute dependency as much as stopping the increase of stats altogether.

 

[Kingreaper]

An answer to that may be more multiple-attribute dependency as much as stopping the increase of stats altogether.

As long as you can only increase a few stats at a time, and can't trade increasing an 18->19 for increasing two 14s->15s, it doesn't matter how MAD your class is, you're only going to pump up your most important stats.

 

[Viktyr Gehrig]

I've played a lot of high-level 3E and 4E (including 21st level 3E and 30th level 4E), so the problems with ability scores that have become too far apart due to score increases have become very apparent.

Seems to me this is less a case of good ability scores getting too much boosts, but poor ability scores getting not enough. Demigods shouldn't have average scores in anything.

 

[MerricB]

Seems to me this is less a case of good ability scores getting too much boosts, but poor ability scores getting not enough. Demigods shouldn't have average scores in anything.

If you increase every ability score, it's pretty much the same as not improving anything. (Other features increase per level to give the high-level power).

If you don't increase every ability score, and try to make all ability scores matter, then disparity problems emerge.

 

[Stalker0]

Someone mentioned the idea that you can get a +1 to your 18th stat, or +2 to your 14's.


What if instead of strict ability bumps, you got a certain number of a point buy points.

So with 4 point buy points I could raise several lower stats or one bump to my big stat. Overtime, its more advantageous to raise your lesser abilities, but gives players the choice.

 

[Fanaelialae]

Someone mentioned the idea that you can get a +1 to your 18th stat, or +2 to your 14's.


What if instead of strict ability bumps, you got a certain number of a point buy points.

So with 4 point buy points I could raise several lower stats or one bump to my big stat. Overtime, its more advantageous to raise your lesser abilities, but gives players the choice.

It could work as an optional system (in fact it's probably one of the best approaches possible) but I think it's too fiddly to be popular. The problem being that even if the DM recorded your initial scores, it would be difficult to tell at a glance whether or not a mistake was made. It would be unpopular, IMO, for the same reasons that many people didn't like the 3e skill system, once cross-class skills and multiclassing entered the picture.

 

[keterys]

Don't increase or mess with ability scores at all.

If the scale of the game changes that you think you need to, give salient abilities/powers to reflect the change you're looking for.

You're an epic barbarian demigod? Great, you have Massive Strength that gives you +10 to Breaking Stuff checks and you can carry 10x the normal encumbrance.

 

[SeRiAlExPeRiMeNtS]

I think that abilities should only increse if nothing else increased by level, I would even prefer a d&d like this.