Ability Scores

[Hassassin]

I tend to agree with this point of view. The whole concept of balance in the game aspect of D&D and the ability to control what PC you make are severely compromised by rolling ability scores. There are some styles of game where it works, but I tend to avoid rolling.

It doesn't have to be either or. There are many ability generation methods that let you customize your character and let the dice determine some of it and have it all be balanced.

As an example off the top of my head: Use point buy X; after that roll Yd6, each die tells you which ability to increment; reroll those that would take a score above 18.

 

[delericho]

[*]From the basic list of Strength, Constitution, Dexterity, Intelligence, Wisdom, and Charisma, are there any that you would like out in the next edition? Are there any others you would like in?

Nope. Those six are a sacred cow. It's possible that modules may add (or even remove) some, but the default will be those six, and only those six.

[*]What would each of the abilities mean? What would an increase of them give to an unclassed character, for example? How would certain classes particularly benefit from certain ability scores?

I would like them to get the "mental analogues" right.

Charisma is the mental analogue of Strength. It reflects your ability to influence others. And, in extreme cases (through magic), it even reflects your ability to influence the universe itself. Both Charisma and Strength are strictly outgoing stats - that is, they are used for attacks, not defences.

Intelligence is the mental analogue of Dexterity. It reflects the speed and flexibility of your thoughts. Both Intelligence and Dexterity are 'hybrid' stats - they apply to some attacks (reflecting accuracy or finesse), and they also have some defensive applications.

And Wisdom is the mental analogue of Constitution. It reflects how resilient you are, and your ability to endure mental hardship. Both Wisdom and Constitution are purely defensive - they affect saves and maybe hit points, but they aren't used to influence others.

But, apparently all stats will be used for saves in 5e, so I guess they haven't gone that way. A mistake.

[*]How much would you want the ability scores to define your character? How much should this change over time? How much should ability scores change, if at all?

Ability scores should be a distant third behind race and class. (Fourth, if we include "theme".)

Ability scores should be much less significant than they are now - the modifiers in general should be lower (Stat/3 - 3, instead of Stat/2 - 5), almost everything that modifies a stat should be removed, and they should not go up with level.

Oh yeah, I knew I forgot something. Also your opinions on ability score generation would be appreciated. I'm personally fine with most types, even the 3d6-put-them-in-order type.

The game should provide three stat generation methods, without advocating any one in particular.

1) A standard array of 16-15-13-12-10-8
2) 4d6-drop-lowest, arrange to suit.
3) 28-point buy, using the 3e stat costs.

The Starter Set should include only one of these methods, being either #1 or #2. (The standard array is probably the best choice.)

(Incidentally, the numbers on this have been carefully worked out. On average, random rolls give approximately 30.5 points, but don't allow for optimisation. The standard array, meanwhile, is a 29-point array which isn't fully optimised but guarantees decent results. And the point buy is 28 points, but allows full optimisation. Thus, there is a trade off between control and 'raw power', at least as expressed in the points.)

 

[Hassassin]

Charisma is the mental analogue of Strength. It reflects your ability to influence others. And, in extreme cases (through magic), it even reflects your ability to influence the universe itself. Both Charisma and Strength are strictly outgoing stats - that is, they are used for attacks, not defences.
[..]
But, apparently all stats will be used for saves in 5e, so I guess they haven't gone that way. A mistake.

I think both Strength and Charisma are fine as defense in opposed rolls.

Grappling and compulsions should use the same or a similar mechanic of characters trying to influence each other through opposed checks. Some abilities (class features, feats, whatever) would let you use Dex/Int to evade on the defense.

 

[delericho]

I think both Strength and Charisma are fine as defense in opposed rolls.

Yeah, that's fair. Though whether that would be a 'true' defence or an opposed roll would be debatable - does A roll against B and then B against A, or do they both roll together and "higher wins"?

Grappling and compulsions should use the same or a similar mechanic of characters trying to influence each other through opposed checks. Some abilities (class features, feats, whatever) would let you use Dex/Int to evade on the defense.

Yep, that sounds good too.

 

[Hassassin]

1) A standard array of 16-15-13-12-10-8
2) 4d6-drop-lowest, arrange to suit.
3) 28-point buy, using the 3e stat costs.

The Starter Set should include only one of these methods, being either #1 or #2. (The standard array is probably the best choice.)

(Incidentally, the numbers on this have been carefully worked out. On average, random rolls give approximately 30.5 points, but don't allow for optimisation. The standard array, meanwhile, is a 29-point array which isn't fully optimised but guarantees decent results. And the point buy is 28 points, but allows full optimisation. Thus, there is a trade off between control and 'raw power', at least as expressed in the points.)

I've written this in other threads, but assuming that odd ability scores are still worse than even, the point buy should stay at 25 points. That's the closest equivalent in power to rolling 4d6dl. The array should use a slightly higher point buy, so either the one you mention (29 point) or drop the 15 to 14 (27 point).

 

[El Mahdi]

I want:

• Strength - sheer lifting, brute force strength. (fast twitch muscle strength).
• Agility - physical coordination, like playing a sport or fighting.
• Dexterity - "manual" dexterity, also known as hand-eye coordination (lock picking, trap disarming, video games, etc.).
• Endurance - physical endurance (slow twitch muscle strength).
• Constitution - overall health and resistance to toxins and diseases.
• Intelligence - IQ
• Wisdom - common sense, willpower, confidence.
• Charisma - personality, character, likeability.
• Appearance - physical attractiveness.