Adjustment to Craft Points and Crafting

[Knight Otu]

1) As I believe I mentioned elsewhere, I'd suggest a feat Craft Alchemical Item:
Craft Alchemical Item [Item Creation]
You are trained in the creation of masterwork and alchemical items.
Prerequisite: ?Craft (Alchemy) 4 ranks?.
Benefit: You gain ?100? craft points. You can create alchemical items and perform other Craft (Alchemy) tasks as though you were a spellcaster. ?You get a +2 bonus to Craft (Alchemy) checks.?
Normal: Only characters with spellcaster levels can make Craft (Alchemy) checks.
-Derived from OGC

And yes, this is a vote to drop Craft Masterwork Item.

2) Based on the introduction of the rule in UA, I'd actually say it is meant to replace the normal craft rules, but don't need to (they are for campaigns that "don't offer a lot of 'downtime' for the PCs,' and such a campaign propably never has enough downtime for crafting).
That said - I'm fine with normal crafting during an adventure. I'm more leery about establishing a relative time frame for out of adventure crafting, but I'm willing to give it a test drive.

3)

I only have a one other problem with the craft point system, which is related to creation of items and scolls that have additional experience point costs of their own.

Interesting quirk... Proposed reword:

To craft an item in between adventures, a character with the appropriate item creation feat (such as Craft Masterwork Items, Brew Potion, or Craft Staff; see below) can pay one-fifth the item's cost to create (usually half the item's market price) in craft points (minimum 1 point). He must also pay material costs equal to the item's cost to create.

That should take care of it, right?

 

[Xael]

Interesting quirk... Proposed reword: "To craft an item in between adventures, a character with the appropriate item creation feat (such as Craft Masterwork Items, Brew Potion, or Craft Staff; see below) can pay one-fifth the item's cost to create (usually half the item's market price) in craft points (minimum 1 point). He must also pay material costs equal to the item's cost to create."

That should take care of it, right?

Seems like it would. Makes a bit more sense now.

 

[Bront]

Slight reword

To craft an item in between adventures, a character with the appropriate item creation feat (such as Craft Masterwork Items, Brew Potion, or Craft Staff; see below) can pay one-fifth the item's cost to create (usually half the item's market price) in craft points (minimum 1 point). He must also pay the normal material costs for the item's creation.

Yours was still a bit ambigious about base cost instead of crafting cost (I knew what it ment, but I could see someone arguing that it didn't). That would actualy fix #2 without making a time frame issue, basicly giving a craft point discount for in between adventure crafting and adventure crafting (Where the point system works fine).

Also, another though, would be to add the words "Additional Market Cost for addtional experience cost of a spell is not figured in when calculating the craft point of crafting cost if the experience cost is beeing payed by the crafter." to the current craft rules to make that distinction clear.

So, I think that if we go #1 and #3 by KO, and state that normal craft rules can be used if the time is allowed for it in an adventure, that everything is clear.

 

[Bront]

Bump

 

[El Jefe]

I see this as a question of what sort of world do we want LEW to be. I see a dichotomy:

1. Some characters may, if they choose, take up a life of crafting. They will adventure only rarely, if ever, and will primarily advance themselves by generating gold through crafting and using that gold to purchase equipment far beyond what a character of their level would be expected to have.

Or...

2. Characters may choose to craft, but crafting will be limited by craft points. From time to time, crafting characters will be forced to adventure to gain experience, thereby gaining additional craft points to continue crafting.

That's the philosophical divide, as I see it. Decide which path you wish LEW to take, and cobbling together some rules to make it happen will be relatively easy.

 

[Xael]

I see this as a question of what sort of world do we want LEW to be. I see a dichotomy:

...

That's the philosophical divide, as I see it. Decide which path you wish LEW to take, and cobbling together some rules to make it happen will be relatively easy.

Frankly, as I know a way for a 7th level caster to make practically infinite amount of money without an experience point cost, I'm not too worried about path 1. Crafting lots of items has never been a problem in any normal games that I've played in, and crafting is rare enough as it is IMHO.

From those options, I'd vote for 1. If there's actually a case where a character starts packing a mountainload of magic items (relative to his level), then judges can just say that he has LA +1 or something. Problem solved.

 

[Bront]

I see this as a question of what sort of world do we want LEW to be. I see a dichotomy:

1. Some characters may, if they choose, take up a life of crafting. They will adventure only rarely, if ever, and will primarily advance themselves by generating gold through crafting and using that gold to purchase equipment far beyond what a character of their level would be expected to have.

Or...

2. Characters may choose to craft, but crafting will be limited by craft points. From time to time, crafting characters will be forced to adventure to gain experience, thereby gaining additional craft points to continue crafting.

That's the philosophical divide, as I see it. Decide which path you wish LEW to take, and cobbling together some rules to make it happen will be relatively easy.

What I currently see is crafting artificialy restricted by the current craft rules, anstead of being open to all. I've specificly heard complaints from players who said "I would have done X with crafting, but not if I need to take a feat, and crafting is more expensive than normal for everything." which is no fun. The craft rules here were implimented to replace crafting, but the rules themselves were not designed to, so we have a conflict.

I don't see problems with 1 and 2, because you eventualy need experience to make the better items, and what is the point of being a rich and powerful character if you don't ever adventure with him? If a player invests in feats to craft items, they are sacrificing immediate power of the feat to gain later power of crafting the item, so it's actualy built in balance of the system. I believe LEW judges can balance it, especialy since you rarely have a completely balanced party in any adventure.

 

[Knight Otu]

I vote Yes on #1 (simply removing the feat) and #3.
I abstain from voting on #2. for now.

 

[El Jefe]

I vote YES on #1. I abstain for now from voting on #2 and #3.

 

[nimisgod]

I too vote YES on #1. I like #3, but I'm not too certain about its effects just yet.