Alchemical Fireballs?

[Psifon]

Can't Resist... Must... take... bait...

Psifon: Question. Alright, your position is that the spell ends in a combo Activation/Impact combo right? Meaning, that the velocity of an object is maintained during or after the transformation? Correct?

This is not an attack, I'm merely asking if this is how you view the spell. If so... If I shrunk any item and toss it to the ground, i.e. four foot drop (Hey, I'm tall. ) isn't that going to cause some problems? Your shrunk campfire is going to go everywhere, most delicate items (including flasks and the like) are going to break, etc... And this is all assuming this whole velocity transference thing is all relative to the object AFTER its been reverted. (Four feet to that shrunken once inch humanoid is DEATH if you went by relative size...) My end point here is that I don't think the intent of the designers was to be CAREFUL while tossing the "Toss onto solid surface" activation clause. I know there is a command word, but still... The spell is meant to be a transport aid, and yes you are creative in coming up with alternative usages. My position on the whole velocity impact issue is going to have to be a no go.

As to the doing more damage than lava or acid issue... I view concentrated Alchemist Fire kinda like I do Thermite Plasma. I get far away from it whenever possible and don't look directly at the flare...

I am not useing any physics explanation to verify my position. What I am using is the rule that alchmist fire flasks are assumed to always break on impact. This gets around the problem with the rules of the game, not the laws of physics. If you wanted to apply the laws of physics, then you can still get away with this trick: You see, the flask is breaking, SIMULTANEOUSLY with it growing. This is means that the force necessary to break it is being applied when it is small (and very thin). It is already breaking, so the "it doesn't have enough force to break after it grows" arguement is moot, since it has already broken by then. The point is "after it grows" is the crutial line here. It doesn't break AFTER it grows, it breaks AS it grows.

It's just growning up broken I gues me and that little flask have a lot in common <sniff><sniffle>

 

[coyote6]

Slight correction...

Oil pricing serves this purpose, and oils are wondrous items, not potions.

Actually, oils are potions. DMG, p. 190, or the SRD: "Magic oils are similar to potions, except that oils are applied externally rather than imbibed." Included on the potions table is the oil of slipperiness. The only oil-like wondrous item is universal solvent, which is also described as being potion-like, and is fairly clearly an aberration (but not, one notes, an Aberration). And, of course, other sources (Magic of Faerun, M. Cook's website, etc.), have plaecd oils under the heading of "Potions".

We now return you to our regularly scheduled argument.

 

[dcollins]

In order for the proposed item to be gameplay-balanced, it needs to be more expensive than the player is arguing.

Sword & Fist's Alchemist's Arrow gives us the model of an arrow-borne load of Alchemist's Fire having a market price of x3.75 (75 gp vs. 20 gp) for -1 die of damage. By this factor, a 4d6 load of AF (1 round only) in a single arrow should have a market price of ~2,400 gp.

However, more precisely, the item very nearly recreates the effect of the flame arrow fiery bolt spell -- 3rd level, range touch attack, 4d6 damage, Reflex save for half -- but 1 round/time only. At 8th caster level, one gets 2 bolts (2 x 4d6 damage), so if this spell were made into a single use-activated item, the suggested market price would be 1,200 gp (level 3 x caster level 8 x 50). This happens to be the same as a single use-activated 8d6 fireball (whose area-effect is both an advantage and a drawback).

Therefore, if allowed, the DM must rule that all the precision crafting of arrow, vehicle, arrowhead, etc. brings the total market price to around 1,200 gp (or even 2,400 gp), or he's allowed an unbalanced item.

Let's say the player argues that his character can craft the item for half market price. The comparison magic items above require a Feat to do so. In order to keep this balanced, the DM should require significant number of ranks in the skills of Alchemy, Craft (bowmaking), and Craft (pottery).

That's all assuming that the DM allows this at all. (Note that the player is getting to exchange a 3rd-level slot that he would need prepared for flame arrow to pull off this effect, with the 3rd-level shrink item that could be cast days in advance, thus freeing up the slot for adventuring.) The DM certainly has excellent grounds for ruling any of the following:

(1) Greater quantities of Achemist's Fire don't do any more damage.
(2) Placing a shrunken item on an arrowhead makes it unsable as ammunition.
(3) A ranged touch attack is insufficient -- like Sword & Fist's Alchemist's Arrow, a normal ranged attack is required.
(4) The shrunken item's changed "now-shrunken composition" is inert and has none of the effects of the normal item (i.e., does not break as a grenade), only being restored by "tossing" or a "word of command". That's both in the precise spell language, and the historical intent when considering the robe of many items which inspired the spell.