Ampersand: Sneak Attack

[Lonely Tylenol]

Nope, it says in Races and Classes that they didn't like recharge mechanics so they ditched them all and there is no way of recovering per encounter powers now.

The rationale was that it was too complicated to play a sub-game at the same time as the real game which was essentially a "card game". One where you had to manage what powers you had in your "hand" and when you could "draw" new ones. They found that players were concentrating too much on the sub-game and that it often played out as:

1) Use my "best" power
2) Recharge to get the power back
3) Use my "best" power again

They wanted players to concentrate on the actual game at hand: How many hitpoints the enemies have left, what tactical decisions to make, how to survive and win given the options you had left.

None of that precludes the idea that you might get access to your powers more often through feats. If a feat gives you one extra per-encounter or per-day use of a power, you just write a little "2x" beside it, and that's all the "gaming" of the game you have to do. I can see how recharge could turn into a weirdo bookkeeping min-max fest, but just slapping an extra use on something seems perfectly at home in the system they seem to be trying to make.

 

[Lonely Tylenol]

What's the rogue gonna say - "Hey guys, I think we should stop for the night, I've used up my allotment of luck for the day"?

"Hey guys, I think we should stop for the night. I'm winded, I've still got some quills jammed in my arm, my sword hand is starting to cramp, and I think that last fight opened up that tusk-wound I took last week. Do you think we could call it quits?"

The simple fix for the gap between player and character knowledge is to render the narrative in a way that makes sense for the character.

 

[Dr. Strangemonkey]

For a good real life example of this sort of thing, consider the Gogoplata choke. There's probably hundreds of Jujitsu artists that know how to do this manuever. They could, in theory, try to do it as often as they wanted to per day. However, as far as I know, only four mixed martial arts fights have ever been ended by the move.

That's an awesome example, thanks.

 

[shilsen]

Some of us have trouble enjoying a movie when our sense of reality gets TOO fried. There's only so much turning off my brain can do before it gets angry and demands to wake up. (Like trying to figure out how hitting 'delete' is supposed to run an anti-virus scan, and how it's possible to hook up C4 to go off when someone does, and why not just shoot the guy since there's a sniper watching anyway...)

The problem, of course, is that the "sense of reality" differs from person to person and is also heavily mediated by the conventions of the particular form of entertainment (especially the conventions that particular individual is used to). It's not that you are turning off your brain and the implication that anyone whose suspension of disbelief is different from you is turning theirs off is a little presumptuous. Rather, you're simply giving more emphasis to certain sections and areas than others.

After all, when you're watching a movie, you're choosing to not have your sense of reality affected by the fact that the characters are actually not real but are being played by actors, or by the fact that you constantly watch it on a screen, or that there's clearly a camera in the same spot as these people but they pretend it's not there. And the fact that you're used to those conventions is a big part of it. When you play D&D, your sense of reality is presumably not affected by the fact that the halfling rogue is being played by your friend Bob, or that it's a world where giant lizards can fly without magic, or where human beings commonly can pull off things nobody in our world can.

None of the above is inherently more appropriate for a suspension of disbelief than anything else. It's all about habit and choice.

Yep, a lot of your joy of 4E will come down to your RLV (Required Level of Verisimilitude). The higher your RLV the more annoying 4E will be, IMO

I'd modify that to make it RTV or Required Type of Verisimilitude. It's not that the type of approach Lizard or any others are preferring has any more verisimilitude than mine or that of the posters taking the approach I am. Every individual playing D&D has their own list of inconsistencies, arbitrariness and unreality that they're willing to accept and another list that they are not. The volume may be slightly larger or smaller in one person's case, but that is all.

 

[Incenjucar]

Man, going over those powers point by point... interesting patterns.

At Will Attack powers doing 2[W] at level 21... Encounter Powers being extra special for one of the tactic choices... the non-linear way that Sneak Attack damage increases...

UGH I want to see the whole thing so I can start homebrewing and playing with the math.

 

[heretic888]

The simple fix for the gap between player and character knowledge is to render the narrative in a way that makes sense for the character.

QFT

Seriously, guys, back when the maneuver system of Tome of Battle came out, I could think of at least a half dozen narrative rationalizations for those particular encounter powers (and even the "recharge" mechanic supporting them).

I channel my ki or animus. I release a momentary burst of adrenaline. I expend some of innate reserves. I have a fleeting moment of perfect concentration. I momentarily adopt a specific physical and mental posture to perform. I position myself in just the right place at just the right time at just the right distance.

That's just stuff I came up with in the last 90 seconds. Seriously. Its not that hard.

I personally hope WotC doesn't provide their favored narrative explanation of the encounter and daily powers. Leave that to the players. Just leave us the juicy crunch to play with and we can write the narrative as we see fit.

Laterz.

 

[hong]

The problem, of course, is that the "sense of reality" differs from person to person and is also heavily mediated by the conventions of the particular form of entertainment (especially the conventions that particular individual is used to). It's not that you are turning off your brain and the implication that anyone whose suspension of disbelief is different from you is turning theirs off is a little presumptuous. Rather, you're simply giving more emphasis to certain sections and areas than others.

I've found that the INSTANT I say "a huge sweatdrop appears next to your head as people react to what you said", people no longer worry so much about verimis vemsiril verismi believability.

 

[ZombieRoboNinja]

"Hey guys, I think we should stop for the night. I'm winded, I've still got some quills jammed in my arm, my sword hand is starting to cramp, and I think that last fight opened up that tusk-wound I took last week. Do you think we could call it quits?"

I'm just thinking of the actual discussion around the table here. Most groups I've played do pretty much all conversation in-character, so this might be a bit awkward. Especially if the other characters want to tell my rogue to stop whining about his dailies and get going. It's a tactical conversation that the characters can't have (because they don't know, under this justification, that they've "used up" their daily powers) but will probably come up fairly frequently for players. (Shelly already mentioned it on one of her articles, in fact.)

So you're forced to either stop roleplaying and hash it out out-of-character (which is also problematic because players might have different tactical priorities from their characters), or else have an entire conversation in weird in-character innuendo.

 

[Incenjucar]

I've found that the INSTANT I say "a huge sweatdrop appears next to your head as people react to what you said", people no longer worry so much about verimis vemsiril verismi believability.

I'm hoping that displaying my horribly bad Amerimanga-inspired fantasy art when showing monsters and such will have a similar effect on my players.

 

[mach1.9pants]

I've found that the INSTANT I say "a huge sweatdrop appears next to your head as people react to what you said", people no longer worry so much about verimis vemsiril verismi believability.

?????????