Ampersand: Sneak Attack

[Ahglock]

Back on topic: I think it's okay for the game to foster archetypes like the light-weaponed rogue. I think it was a big problem of 3e that it had to have tools available to make pretty much anything, but those tools created all sorts of screwed-up possibilities. As I said, I don't want to see the greatsword-wielding rogue of 1e/2e coming back.

Um I want to see the great-sword wielding rogue, that being a possibility is a feature to me. Its only a flaw when its such a good choice that it becomes the only choice. I'd prefer a game with lots of screwed up possibilities that a DM has to step in and say no to than a game of very limited possibilities.

 

[hong]

I can grok HP, but no I can not grok per-encounter with a set of generic answers.

You can, it'll just take a few months for the cognitive dissonance to set in.

 

[fafhrd]

Um I want to see the great-sword wielding rogue, that being a possibility is a feature to me. Its only a flaw when its such a good choice that it becomes the only choice.

Fortunately, it's very likely that a rogue can wield a greatsword. It will simply suck as an option.

 

[Ahglock]

You can, it'll just take a few months for the cognitive dissonance to set in.

Its been a few months of running SAGA and it still hasn't set in. We use it, we shrug are shoulders and think its dumb and probably have a lot less fun than we would if it had a better mechanic. Heck we preferred the force mechanics in the earlier D20 star wars games.

And besides no one at my table really cheers over the HP system, we can accept it and since its supposed to be abstract its easier to accept than concrete maneuvers that logically shouldn't be per-encounter but are, but we don't exactly love the HP system. There aren't many fantasy games that don't use it or a variation of it so HPs it is.

 

[Ahglock]

Fortunately, it's very likely that a rogue can wield a greatsword. It will simply suck as an option.

And that is just as bad as it being too good of an option.

 

[Campbell]

I would just like to take some time out of the Encounter and Daily Power debate to say that the thing I like the most about the rogue class writeup are two class features rogues do not have : Trap Finding, and Evasion. Both never quite felt right to me and it warms my heart to see them disappear.

 

[ruleslawyer]

And that is just as bad as it being too good of an option.

I disagree. If you want a rogue to go against the grain of the finesse combatant, introduce a feat that allows it. Balancing a greatsword as both an optimal rogue's weapon and optimal fighter weapon may entail some really tricky stuff that we haven't seen yet.

 

[Ahglock]

I disagree. If you want a rogue to go against the grain of the finesse combatant, introduce a feat that allows it. Balancing a greatsword as both an optimal rogue's weapon and optimal fighter weapon may entail some really tricky stuff that we haven't seen yet.

I don't care much if it costs a feat, but if someone wants to build a character that doesn't fit the cookie cutter molds of the minds of the 4e creators he should be able to make an effective one. A greatsword wielding rogue is something that should easily be possible to make an effective version of. It doesn't need to be just as good, but it should be good enough that it isn't a bad idea, and it shouldn't be so good that its a bad idea not to. The thugish rogue with a big ass weapon is an archtype that my group has seen before and wants to see again.

 

[hong]

I don't care much if it costs a feat, but if someone wants to build a character that doesn't fit the cookie cutter molds of the minds of the 4e creators he should be able to make an effective one. A greatsword wielding rogue is something that should easily be possible to make an effective version of.

The concept of a greatsword wielding, agile, lightly-armoured character should indeed be eminently possible under 4E. Said character concept will very likely include some levels of the rogue class. It will also very likely include some levels of the fighter class.

Does this count as a "greatsword wielding rogue"? That depends on the mindset of the person asking the question.

 

[ruleslawyer]

As I said above, I think that 3e's biggest mistake was providing this sort of option bloat. I prefer what the designers seem to be suggesting; if you want a "thuggish" rogue, take some fighter levels and I'm sure that greatsword will be quite effective. But working hard to bring the greatsword up to par (but no further, as it was in 1e/2e) as a rogue weapon is not really necessary IMO.