D&D 5E An Argument for Why Paladins are the Strongest Class in 5E D&D

[Helldritch]

The TWF bonus action is a bit meh... Most people prefer their paladins either with a shield or a two handed weapon. PAM let you use your bonus action for an additional attack. That is good. But shield masters helps you out with dexterity save, a bane for the paladin, it also means that now the Shield Master takes only half damage from dex base attack that allow a save and can now shove an enemy to allow for advantage on the prone opponent. An attack is nice, but the option of shield mastery is superior because of the flexibility it allows. Not only can the paladin do his attack(s) with advantage (if the shove succeeds) but his allies too.

This also have the benefit of letting the paladin take either the defensive style (for +1 to AC) which makes him get a potential 21 AC when he can get his hands on a plate armor. Or Duelist for a bonus to damage (which is nice, but a fighter is better with this bonus than a paladin. But that is an other debate...). More over, the paladin can always use his shield as an improvised weapon to make an attack with his shield anyways. It would be less efficient than TWF but it is an option still.

 

[FrogReaver]

The TWF bonus action is a bit meh... Most people prefer their paladins either with a shield or a two handed weapon. PAM let you use your bonus action for an additional attack. That is good. But shield masters helps you out with dexterity save, a bane for the paladin, it also means that now the Shield Master takes only half damage from dex base attack that allow a save and can now shove an enemy to allow for advantage on the prone opponent. An attack is nice, but the option of shield mastery is superior because of the flexibility it allows. Not only can the paladin do his attack(s) with advantage (if the shove succeeds) but his allies too.

This also have the benefit of letting the paladin take either the defensive style (for +1 to AC) which makes him get a potential 21 AC when he can get his hands on a plate armor. Or Duelist for a bonus to damage (which is nice, but a fighter is better with this bonus than a paladin. But that is an other debate...). More over, the paladin can always use his shield as an improvised weapon to make an attack with his shield anyways. It would be less efficient than TWF but it is an option still.

t's not that Shield Master or PAM is bad, it's that TWF with a Paladin comes very close to either of those feats without requiring a feat.

 

[FrogReaver]

No feat is needed at all. TWF is always an option to grab a bonus action. In direct comparison the P8 just also has a feat available the P2/B6 does not.

TWF Pally plays great too.

 

[Helldritch]

TWF Pally plays great too.

I still prefer to see a paly with a shield. It's a personal taste. TWF paly looks weird to me. Unless they're elven. Then I say they're okish?

 

[Seramus]

I would have no problem letting a Paladin player take two weapon fighting as her fighting style.

 

[Helldritch]

I would not either. But it would still look strange to me. To each his own I guess.

 

[FrogReaver]

Can you go into a bit more detail about the graph please?

Yea, I can't make heads or tails of his graph.

 

[Garthanos]

If you're not talking from actual experience with an MC'd Bardadin, you're theorycrafting. BTW, when you theorycraft, you have to take into account the odds of hitting & saving, e.g.

As I said, for single-target damage, a 3rd-level smite beats Fireball. Fireball owns mobs, though. If you want to go for damage in 5e, don't be seduced by the seemingly large numbers of dice Wizard/Sorc spells have. Warriors rule.

Complex Theorycraft > Simple Theorycraft but then again if you can fireball when you need to and smite or some other single target smackdown when you dont you have best of both worlds and isn't that the point?

 

[FrogReaver]

So, I'm trying to examine the question: If resource usage is kept equal to 1 spellslot per turn on average, then how much does divine smite actually outdamage fireball by for single target?

 

[Gladius Legis]

For simplicity's sake, I'll just model the Paladin's hit rate at 60%, and the spellcaster's DC results in an enemy failing the save 60% of the time ...

Fireball (3rd-level slot):
.6*28 + .4*14 = 22.4

Single Divine Smite (3rd-level slot)
(Paladin level is 9, has longsword w/ Dueling FS and 18 STR):
(1-(1-.6)^2) * 18) + (2 * .6 * (4.5+6)) = 27.72

So in this very simple scenario, the single Divine Smite turn is outdamaging the Fireball vs. single target by about 24%.

(Of course, the Paladin also keeps his spell slot if he misses both attacks, but I don't know how to model that part mathemetically.)