Angel 11-19 *SPOILERS*
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Dragonblade
Adventurer
Also what was/is each of their relationships (Angel/Spike/Fred/Wes...etc.) to Buffy? What happened to Buffy? How did the Buffy series end?
I never watched Buffy. Not one episode. Can someone give me a run down of the major Buffy story arcs and plot points? I'm sure there are fan sites with complete transcripts of every episode but I don't want to sit and read through all that.
Also, who are the major players in the Buffyverse? Who is the Initiate? Who are the Wolfram & Hart senior partners? Who are the Watchers? Who are the Slayers? Who or What are all the other power groups that have come and gone?
I know generally what and who certain people are from just watching the show and picking up details. But it would be nice if someone could spell it all out for me.
And can someone give me a rundown of the major players and story arcs of Angel? Who is Lindsey? What is the deal with Wolfram Hart? This is the first season I have ever watched Angel, what have I missed?
And don't just say that so-and-so is the former enemy/lover/brother/whatever of so-and-so. I don't know any of the major characters so please explain who everyone is. Thank you!
I never watched Buffy. Not one episode. Can someone give me a run down of the major Buffy story arcs and plot points? I'm sure there are fan sites with complete transcripts of every episode but I don't want to sit and read through all that.
Also, who are the major players in the Buffyverse? Who is the Initiate? Who are the Wolfram & Hart senior partners? Who are the Watchers? Who are the Slayers? Who or What are all the other power groups that have come and gone?
I know generally what and who certain people are from just watching the show and picking up details. But it would be nice if someone could spell it all out for me.
And can someone give me a rundown of the major players and story arcs of Angel? Who is Lindsey? What is the deal with Wolfram Hart? This is the first season I have ever watched Angel, what have I missed?
And don't just say that so-and-so is the former enemy/lover/brother/whatever of so-and-so. I don't know any of the major characters so please explain who everyone is. Thank you!
Dragonblade
Adventurer
I do catch reruns when I can but the syndicated shows are all mixed up. They don't ever show anything in chronological order and it drives me nuts when I'm trying to sort out who people are.
For example, I've been watching Stargate on Sci-Fi and none of their episodes are in order either and it drives me nuts.
For example, I've been watching Stargate on Sci-Fi and none of their episodes are in order either and it drives me nuts.
stevelabny
Explorer
yeah, you really should watch the episodes: but for the record:
Warning spoilers abound for buffy seasons 1-7 and angel 1-4
Whats a Buffy? Whats a Slayer?
to every generation is born a slayer..just one. to fight the demons and devils and dark creatures. Buffy is the current one. She died for a second once, so Kendra became a slayer. Then Kendra died, so Faith became a slayer. Buffy died again, but no new slayers appeared. Buffy came back. In the last season of Buffy , the baddies were killing all the potential slayers in the world. So Buffy and the gang gathered a bunch together, trained them, made a small army of potentials, and then split the slayer power from Buffy and Faith into all of the potential slayers. Seeing as the show ended immediately after without so much as a prologue, we have NO IDEA what everyones power levels are. Last we heard, Buffy was in Europe, relaxing after stopping 7 armageddons.
Angel has been around since episode #1 of Buffy as a mysterious do-gooder. We soon found out he is a vampire who had done a whole bunch of evil and was cursed with a soul and has wandered around since then suffering bouts of depression and do-gooderness. He and Buffy obviously fell in love, but alas the curse would cause him to go evil again if he ever found true happiness, and apparently taking Buffys virginity is true bliss. So Angel reverted to Angelus (his evil state of mind) and killed one of the cast and Buffy chased him down. Buffy's witch sidekick Willow sucessfully returned Angel's soul to his body but Buffy stabbed him in the chest with a sword anyway and pushed him in a heck-dimension. he returns for seasons 2 and 3 for more angsty love with buffy before moving to L.A. for Angel season 1. Angelus has come out a few more times to go on rampages, but nobody has the desire/guts to put Angel down.
Spike showed up in sunnydale in season 2 (with drusilla). as a bad guy. Hes another tough guy vampire and has killed a few slayers already, so he sees Buffy as a challenge. He comes and goes during seasons 2 and 3, then returns for season four and is captured by the Initiative, the top-secret government paranormal investigation and beat-down squad. They put a chip in his head that prevents him from fighting the good and innocent. He then becomes a pseudo good guy. He falls for Buffy but it isnt until she dies and comes back that she develops any interest in him. They do the nasty but she decides shes just using him and dumps him.He gets annoyed and goes on a mission to restore his soul in a last ditch attempt to win her over. He gets his soul back but is much less angsty about it then Angel.
At the end of Angel last season, as part of the deal with Wolfram&Hart, Angel was given a special amulet for a "champion" to help Buffy fight her Apocalypse. He brought it to Buffy but it was decided that he cant/wont be her hero, so Spike stepped up to the plate and died saving the world.
Which brings us to this season of Angel, where Spike is returned, as a ghost, obviously due to whatever plans W&H had for Angel (or Spike, if theyre really good)
Wesley was the second Watcher on Buffy in season 3. (did he come with Faith? Or was he giles-replacement? memory fuzzy.) He got kicked out of the Watchers , so he became a rogue demon hunter (whats a rogue demon?) and joined the cast of Angel 7 episodes into the shows run. Watchers are just pretentious British supernatural guardians who read books and train Slayers and fight evil. They got blowed up real good in the last season of Buffy.
Former Angel cast member Cordelia started as the annoying popular-girl on Buffy, became part of the "Scooby gang" (term for Buffy and friends) and then moved to L.A. after graduation, strted working for Angel, was given the power to see the big bad dangers Angel needs to face and was written off the show after last season in what would be impossible to explain due to a spell that has wiped large portions of the last season out of the character's memories.
Gunn, Fred and Lorne have never met Buffy as they all orginated on Angel.
Gunn as a cooler version of Blade (of marvel comics and movie fame)
Fred as a human captive in a demon-dimension that was rescued by the Angel gang and then stuck around.
And Lorne as a demon from the same dimension who's been living here for a while because he's...well, LORNE.
As for the senior partners: this is one of lifes great mysteries. Nobody seems to know, although the return of Lefty might shed some light on the subject.
Howd I do ?
Warning spoilers abound for buffy seasons 1-7 and angel 1-4
Whats a Buffy? Whats a Slayer?
to every generation is born a slayer..just one. to fight the demons and devils and dark creatures. Buffy is the current one. She died for a second once, so Kendra became a slayer. Then Kendra died, so Faith became a slayer. Buffy died again, but no new slayers appeared. Buffy came back. In the last season of Buffy , the baddies were killing all the potential slayers in the world. So Buffy and the gang gathered a bunch together, trained them, made a small army of potentials, and then split the slayer power from Buffy and Faith into all of the potential slayers. Seeing as the show ended immediately after without so much as a prologue, we have NO IDEA what everyones power levels are. Last we heard, Buffy was in Europe, relaxing after stopping 7 armageddons.
Angel has been around since episode #1 of Buffy as a mysterious do-gooder. We soon found out he is a vampire who had done a whole bunch of evil and was cursed with a soul and has wandered around since then suffering bouts of depression and do-gooderness. He and Buffy obviously fell in love, but alas the curse would cause him to go evil again if he ever found true happiness, and apparently taking Buffys virginity is true bliss. So Angel reverted to Angelus (his evil state of mind) and killed one of the cast and Buffy chased him down. Buffy's witch sidekick Willow sucessfully returned Angel's soul to his body but Buffy stabbed him in the chest with a sword anyway and pushed him in a heck-dimension. he returns for seasons 2 and 3 for more angsty love with buffy before moving to L.A. for Angel season 1. Angelus has come out a few more times to go on rampages, but nobody has the desire/guts to put Angel down.
Spike showed up in sunnydale in season 2 (with drusilla). as a bad guy. Hes another tough guy vampire and has killed a few slayers already, so he sees Buffy as a challenge. He comes and goes during seasons 2 and 3, then returns for season four and is captured by the Initiative, the top-secret government paranormal investigation and beat-down squad. They put a chip in his head that prevents him from fighting the good and innocent. He then becomes a pseudo good guy. He falls for Buffy but it isnt until she dies and comes back that she develops any interest in him. They do the nasty but she decides shes just using him and dumps him.He gets annoyed and goes on a mission to restore his soul in a last ditch attempt to win her over. He gets his soul back but is much less angsty about it then Angel.
At the end of Angel last season, as part of the deal with Wolfram&Hart, Angel was given a special amulet for a "champion" to help Buffy fight her Apocalypse. He brought it to Buffy but it was decided that he cant/wont be her hero, so Spike stepped up to the plate and died saving the world.
Which brings us to this season of Angel, where Spike is returned, as a ghost, obviously due to whatever plans W&H had for Angel (or Spike, if theyre really good)
Wesley was the second Watcher on Buffy in season 3. (did he come with Faith? Or was he giles-replacement? memory fuzzy.) He got kicked out of the Watchers , so he became a rogue demon hunter (whats a rogue demon?) and joined the cast of Angel 7 episodes into the shows run. Watchers are just pretentious British supernatural guardians who read books and train Slayers and fight evil. They got blowed up real good in the last season of Buffy.
Former Angel cast member Cordelia started as the annoying popular-girl on Buffy, became part of the "Scooby gang" (term for Buffy and friends) and then moved to L.A. after graduation, strted working for Angel, was given the power to see the big bad dangers Angel needs to face and was written off the show after last season in what would be impossible to explain due to a spell that has wiped large portions of the last season out of the character's memories.
Gunn, Fred and Lorne have never met Buffy as they all orginated on Angel.
Gunn as a cooler version of Blade (of marvel comics and movie fame)
Fred as a human captive in a demon-dimension that was rescued by the Angel gang and then stuck around.
And Lorne as a demon from the same dimension who's been living here for a while because he's...well, LORNE.
As for the senior partners: this is one of lifes great mysteries. Nobody seems to know, although the return of Lefty might shed some light on the subject.
Howd I do ?
RangerWickett
Legend
Impressively.
But you did forget to mention the sort of 'bloodline' of the vampires on the show.
Way back before things like electricity or America, there was a female vampire named Darla. I missed out on the really old part of the backstory, but long story short, she turned a normal ho-hum chap with a bad Irish accent into a vampire. This was Angelus. What you need to understand from the get go is that in the Buffy/Angel universe, vampires and various other nasties don't have souls. If a person is turned into a vampire, he keeps his memories, but loses all traces of humanity and remorse. Vampires simply aren't 'good.' You can stake them all you want and not feel bad about it, because they are just forces of evil (that happen to get all bumpy on their foreheads for some reason).
Jump forward a long span of time, as Darla and Angelus travel around England having violent and bloody fun.
I think Angelus turns Drusila into a vampire. Drusila was just a waifish young lady who apparently had second sight, which is why she always seems a little out of it. Drusila, in turn, decided that she wanted a boytoy vampire, and she chose William, a poet who some people called 'William the Bloody' because his poems were so bloody awful. She turned William into a vampire, and later he changed his name to Spike because he got into the habit of stabbing people in . . . the head? with railroad spikes. That was in the 1880s.
Some time around the turn of the century, Angelus, Darla, Drusila, and Spike are roaming around central Europe, wreaking havoc, when they come across a group of gypsies. Angelus has his fun with a gypsy woman, and kills her. As punishment, the girl's father places a curse on Angelus to give him his soul back. This comes with the disclaimer that if he ever experiences a moment of true happiness, he will lose his soul, and revert to his nasty vampireness.
Angelus changes his name to Angel, and with extreme amounts of angst, leaves the group of vampires. He has trouble surviving as a blood-sucker, and tries once to go back to Darla and the gang, but he can't bring himself to be evil. This is around the same time that Spike kills his first Slayer, during the Boxer Rebellion in China.
Some time between Angelus becoming Angel, and the 1980s, all these vampires make it to America. Spike bleaches his hair blonde and kills another Slayer in New York. Angel moves around, living off rats and slaughterhouse blood. Then, . . . and here's where I get pissed at myself for missing out on season two of Buffy, Angel gets a new lease on things, and decides to try to actively be good, tracking down this new Slayer, Buffy, and falling in love with her.
Then, between Season Three and Four of Buffy, Spike turns Harmony into a vampire. Why, I have no idea. Apparently the writers wanted an immortal ditzy blonde for comic relief, to torment us forever.
But you did forget to mention the sort of 'bloodline' of the vampires on the show.
Way back before things like electricity or America, there was a female vampire named Darla. I missed out on the really old part of the backstory, but long story short, she turned a normal ho-hum chap with a bad Irish accent into a vampire. This was Angelus. What you need to understand from the get go is that in the Buffy/Angel universe, vampires and various other nasties don't have souls. If a person is turned into a vampire, he keeps his memories, but loses all traces of humanity and remorse. Vampires simply aren't 'good.' You can stake them all you want and not feel bad about it, because they are just forces of evil (that happen to get all bumpy on their foreheads for some reason).
Jump forward a long span of time, as Darla and Angelus travel around England having violent and bloody fun.
I think Angelus turns Drusila into a vampire. Drusila was just a waifish young lady who apparently had second sight, which is why she always seems a little out of it. Drusila, in turn, decided that she wanted a boytoy vampire, and she chose William, a poet who some people called 'William the Bloody' because his poems were so bloody awful. She turned William into a vampire, and later he changed his name to Spike because he got into the habit of stabbing people in . . . the head? with railroad spikes. That was in the 1880s.
Some time around the turn of the century, Angelus, Darla, Drusila, and Spike are roaming around central Europe, wreaking havoc, when they come across a group of gypsies. Angelus has his fun with a gypsy woman, and kills her. As punishment, the girl's father places a curse on Angelus to give him his soul back. This comes with the disclaimer that if he ever experiences a moment of true happiness, he will lose his soul, and revert to his nasty vampireness.
Angelus changes his name to Angel, and with extreme amounts of angst, leaves the group of vampires. He has trouble surviving as a blood-sucker, and tries once to go back to Darla and the gang, but he can't bring himself to be evil. This is around the same time that Spike kills his first Slayer, during the Boxer Rebellion in China.
Some time between Angelus becoming Angel, and the 1980s, all these vampires make it to America. Spike bleaches his hair blonde and kills another Slayer in New York. Angel moves around, living off rats and slaughterhouse blood. Then, . . . and here's where I get pissed at myself for missing out on season two of Buffy, Angel gets a new lease on things, and decides to try to actively be good, tracking down this new Slayer, Buffy, and falling in love with her.
Then, between Season Three and Four of Buffy, Spike turns Harmony into a vampire. Why, I have no idea. Apparently the writers wanted an immortal ditzy blonde for comic relief, to torment us forever.
Kahuna Burger
First Post
RangerWickett said:
well, thats the official line... it doesn't pan out on several occasions.. vampires may not be good, but they don't have to be 'evil' either, but the slayer motif kills them anyway (including on one occasion out of pure 'you hung out with my boyfriend' pissyness).
actually, angel specificly states about drusilla "First I made her insane, then I made her a vampire." Drusilla was out of it because Angel apparently tourtured her well past the breaking point before actually killing her... There is a heirarchy of evil in vamps, and this ep puts Angel well worse than spike ever aspired to be. Spike was a killer, and good at it, and still has no particular remorse, but he had the capacity to care even when 'soulless', and I don't think they ever showed him engaging in torture (except of angel, and that was mostly dru). Angel was not merely hungry for blood and cocky about his powers, he was actively evil... I suspect if he had gotten the chip in the head he would have stayed just as evil, finding ways to incite others to do the actual infliction of pain and screwing with people's heads.
I'm so psyched Spike won, btw....
Kahuna Burger
Psychotic Dreamer
First Post
Wow. That was an amazing episode of Angel. Amazing fight between Angel and Spike. Just everything was perfect. Lindesy at the end. WONDERFUL! He is one of the people I wanted to see him return. And now... more chaos ensues.
Pielorinho
Iron Fist of Pelor
Interesting...I didn't much like this episode, except for Lindsay's appearance at the end.
But then, I loved the luchadores episode. Different strokes, I guess.
Daniel
But then, I loved the luchadores episode. Different strokes, I guess
.Daniel
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