Angel 11-19 *SPOILERS*

[Henry]

Impressively.
Then, between Season Three and Four of Buffy, Spike turns Harmony into a vampire. Why, I have no idea.

Small correction: One of the vampires at Ascension Day (the villain climax of Buffy Season 3) killed Harmony and turned her. She left the jerk later and decided to strike out on her own. It was soon after that she met Spike and became his girl-toy.

 

[LightPhoenix]

Wow... I knew I had seen that guy somewhere before, but I didn't make the Lindsey connection at all. Geez, I'm terrible. *sniff*

Not really. I should have remembered Darla being in the box - I think I was just reaching for straws when the answer was obvious.

I'm SO overjoyed we're gonna get to see Eve die. Seriously. I thought she was terrible in the episode, and with her extended screentime I'm not really too fond of her as an actress either. No, and I'll never forgive her for being a substitute Lilah.

But, on a side note... I wonder if this is why Lilah isn't on the show this season? I would really love to see a showdown between Lilah and Lindsey... their bickering was great. And it just wouldn't have made any sense for Lilah to be with Lindsey... though that would have been a shocker for sure. Which means there's possibly hope for Lilah to return! Possibly once Eve is discovered, and Team Angel has to team up with the Senior Partners.

 

[Henry]

My thoughts on the episode:

In Joss we Trust.

I reminded KidC of this in a thread about a month ago, and I'm calling it in now. I think this is headed in some great, dramatic directions.

• Lindsey McDonald, the greatest villain in Angel's history AFAIC, is back. Like John C, I was ironically just thinking about him two weeks ago, and wondering what he'd next show up in!
• The biggest contrast between Angel and Spike, is that William has always been decisive. How someone can be both a wimp and decisive at the same time is beyond me. He always knows what he wants, even as a human, even if he can't get it due to circumstances. He wanted his mother well - he got it, though it backfired. He wanted Buffy, he eventually got her. He wanted a soul - lo and behold, he fought almost to the breaking point, and HE WON IT. He wanted buffy to respect him, and he earned it.
  What's the first thing he did when he was solid? Found some blood, and found a woman. He thinks the cup would make him champion of prophecy - he wants it more than Angel. Whether you like him or loathe him, he's always focused when he picks a goal. He's more "whole" than Angel, in this respect.
• Liam, on the other hand, has always been indecisive. He was a tavern drunk and brawler because he was unfocused, he was traipsing around europe for a hundred years because he went from one thing to the next, seeking nothing but fun, and his indecisivenes really showed through with his conflicted soul. He is indecisive now - he broods, he mulls possiblities, and is usually forced or coerced into a course of action. I've seen that trait in Liam, Angelus, and Angel - the common thread is his lack of focus.
• Eve surprised me - though the end "betrayal" scene was broadcast a MILE AWAY with her "I'm not the bad guy" speech.
• Spike in the viper scene had me rolling! LOL!
  "I'm sorry, you're *szzsszhshzs*breaking up*szzsszhshzs*
  (click)
  "ponce."

In all, I really enjoyed it.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

well, thats the official line... it doesn't pan out on several occasions.. vampires may not be good, but they don't have to be 'evil' either, but the slayer motif kills them anyway (including on one occasion out of pure 'you hung out with my boyfriend' pissyness).



actually, angel specificly states about drusilla "First I made her insane, then I made her a vampire." Drusilla was out of it because Angel apparently tourtured her well past the breaking point before actually killing her... There is a heirarchy of evil in vamps, and this ep puts Angel well worse than spike ever aspired to be. Spike was a killer, and good at it, and still has no particular remorse, but he had the capacity to care even when 'soulless', and I don't think they ever showed him engaging in torture (except of angel, and that was mostly dru). Angel was not merely hungry for blood and cocky about his powers, he was actively evil... I suspect if he had gotten the chip in the head he would have stayed just as evil, finding ways to incite others to do the actual infliction of pain and screwing with people's heads.

I'm so psyched Spike won, btw....

Kahuna Burger

The difference between Spike and Angel is also seen in the 2nd(?) buffy season where Angelus "returns" and joins up with Spike. They two work together, at least in the beginning. But as Angelus wants to destroy the whole world and send it to hell, Spike turns against him and tells Buffy and her gang Angelus plans. Even if only he doesn`t want this food to become destroyed, it was an interesting twist...

Mustrum Ridcully

 

[CCamfield]

. But as Angelus wants to destroy the whole world and send it to hell, Spike turns against him and tells Buffy and her gang Angelus plans. Even if only he doesn`t want this food to become destroyed, it was an interesting twist...

"The truth is, I like this world. You?ve got... dog racing, Manchester United. And you've got people. Billions of people walking around like Happy Meals with legs."

 

[uv23]

I agree with most here, fab episode. I enjoyed it thoroughly and the bit with Spike in the Viper was heeelarious. Loved seeing Lindsey at the end as he was always a favorite. Also really liked the runes and such, very nice touch. Would say more but the flu is draggin' me down.

 

[KnowTheToe]

Interesting...I didn't much like this episode, except for Lindsay's appearance at the end.

But then, I loved the luchadores episode. Different strokes, I guess .

Daniel

I agree completely. I don't like the new flavor of the show or the direction. I don't like any of the characters anymore except Wesley. I think I have watched my last episode of Angel. It makes me sad because Smallville and Angel are the last two shows that I watch with regularity and neither has really done anything for me this season.

 

[RatPunk]

Well, I was going to post a detailed response to all of Dragonblade's questions, but it ended up being 5 pages long. I guess I'll just have to PM it to him instead...

On a related note, I also loved last nights episode. Lindsey's appearance at the end completely took me by surprise. I knew Eve had to be talking to somebody we knew, but he was probably the last person I was expecting. Most excellent! Now I really can't wait to see how this season evolves.

 

[Sharraunna]

As I recall, Spike did not want a soul. He went to South America and passed the demon trials to get rid of the chip. His plan was to come back and kill Buffy for treating him so badly. The demon in charge thought it would be more fun to give him a soul instead.

 

[dravot]

As I recall, Spike did not want a soul. He went to South America and passed the demon trials to get rid of the chip. His plan was to come back and kill Buffy for treating him so badly. The demon in charge thought it would be more fun to give him a soul instead.

That was a deception by the writers. We're led to believe that's why he's going there, but at one point we learn that he specifically asks for his soul.