D&D 5E Another Critical Hits 5E Report

[Snapdragyn]

I share the concern about the potential overemphasis on ability scores (w/ all caveats regarding early play-testing, lack of modules, etc.). In particular, with the statements about slower scaling of attack modifiers, I'm worried that 5e could perhaps be a game where your initial roll for stats makes or breaks your character for as many levels as it survives. :/

 

[fuzzlewump]

So what happens if you don't win the conflict, can't you run away? Or is not winning also not possible?

Are you asking my personal preference, my opinion of what Dnd in general should be, my opinion of what 4e currently is, or what?

Like I said, your game can be whatever you want. But the game as presented in the books, modules, and the Dnd encounters does in my opinion engender the entitlement mindset. As in, 'I'm entitled to a balanced encounter with no thought required beyond character creation and in combat tactics because that's the game as it is presented by the creators.' keep in mind, I'm not saying this 'entitlement' is a bad thing. In my mind, entitlement just means strong expectation, and those strong expectations are formed from the social contract between players and dm, and that contract is informed by the rules and the game as presented.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

It is really funny how well 4e combats run if you throw out most expectations over board.
magic items according to level... forget it...
monsters in range +/- 3... forget it...
players expected to win every battle... forgit it too

Today I just used the replaced PC (blackguard) as a monster, just adding insubstantial (which was immediately canceled by radiant damage) and went with it against a 4 person party.
I did well over 100 damage total before it went down, nearly dropping the slayer. all other PCs had been dropped.
We had a blast!

 

[Essenti]

I share the concern about the potential overemphasis on ability scores (w/ all caveats regarding early play-testing, lack of modules, etc.). In particular, with the statements about slower scaling of attack modifiers, I'm worried that 5e could perhaps be a game where your initial roll for stats makes or breaks your character for as many levels as it survives. :/

If the intended design as listed on the 5e info page is to unify the feel of play to include all prior versions of D&D with their modular framework. And this first taste is just the pure baseline--ie, not even scaled up to BECMI level... Having modules that scale the progression of the game further (including dials from gritty to superhero) would be really easy to layer on top of this ultra light and flat mechanic we are currently glimpsing. As a foundation for layering the "feel" of other editions, I think they might have nailed it, or I'm at least hopefull and optimistic that they have. With what little information has trickled out already, I think it's a brilliant baseline.

 

[Plane Sailing]

If a Paladin can't even hold off an Ogre's strike, then that is a pretty poor Paladin. A heavily armored, physically tough class like the Paladin shouldn't be the weak link in a battle against an enemy who uses straightforward physical attacks. That simply is not living up to the class's name.

I don't want to see any more editions where the sleep spell makes entire classes obsolete...

We know (a) that he is somewhat injured and (b) that the PCs are low level - maybe even first level?

This exact same scenario could have been played out this way in every edition of D&D prior to 4e; to 1st/2nd level PCs an ogre has always been one of the apex threats - tough and hands out a lot of damage.

And your sleep comment is somewhat hyperbolic - the alternative reading would be 'thank goodness that on that one occasion the sleep spell saved our bacon and allowed us as a team to defeat that terrible foe'. Even at its best in earlier editions it would only win one encounter - the party as a whole has to win all their encounters.

Cheers

 

[Tortoise]

Apparently your idea of a "boss fight" differs from mine and many (most?) others. The BBEG is supposed to be climactic and tough, not just some gobbo to "mop up". If you back him in to a corner, he's dangerous.

I don't care if every other fight lasted only a few minutes, this is the big scene in the story. If there were extenuating circumstances it should have been written.

Have you ever seen the show Firefly? There was an episode of it in which the BBEG was an old, very evil, rich, mobster type. He wasn't some combat monster, he had henchmen, hirelings, and minions for that stuff. When main characters got past his goons, he was a wimp, but still an important and satisfying target for their anger.

Not all BBEG need to be able to fight for confrontations to be interesting.

 

[Tortoise]

I hope WotC does something to counteract this trend of making 5E look like a 1E throwback with nothing to offer late-3E/4E fans. I want to see a good new edition, but all of this is making me very, very worried.

Reading through the transcripts of the seminars it is clear that some ideas from all editions, 4e, 3e, etc, are in the mix.

 

[Tortoise]

If a Paladin can't even hold off an Ogre's strike, then that is a pretty poor Paladin. A heavily armored, physically tough class like the Paladin shouldn't be the weak link in a battle against an enemy who uses straightforward physical attacks. That simply is not living up to the class's name.

I don't want to see any more editions where the sleep spell makes entire classes obsolete...

If it were 1e then the ogre could do 1d10 or by weapon damage and the Paladin could potentially have a starting maximum of 14 hit points at 1st level. Being already injured, even without a crit there is a chance of taking the Paladin out in one swing.

The things we don't know here are many. Was the Paladin in fact heavily armored? What were his current hit points? What damage capability did the ogre have? etc, etc, etc.

I suggest waiting to find out more details before jumping to conclusions.

 

[Rechan]

This exact same scenario could have been played out this way in every edition of D&D prior to 4e; to 1st/2nd level PCs an ogre has always been one of the apex threats - tough and hands out a lot of damage.

In 4e, an ogre would be a level 8 threat. Against a single 1st level PC, he'd stomp a hole in them.

 

[Rechan]

One thing to remember/consider on these reports - notably if you are 4E fan - is that this is the "base" game. The simple version. I was expecting a very OD&D or 1st ed vibe from that. It is the base everything else builds on and has options to change.


I suspect once the tactical modules and some other later stuff, it can feel much more 4E-ish. We just haven't seen any of those yet as the playtest of the basic game is being run.

I've said it before every time this point comes up.

If I don't like how the base rules work, then it doesn't matter what kind of goodies I layer on top of a rotten foundation. If the fundamental mechanics are bleh to me, I'm not buying.

So far I really, really dislike the Ability Scores as Saves, and Opposed Rolls. Even if you tear those out, you're still tearing it out. Adding is easeier than subtracting.