D&D 5E Another Critical Hits 5E Report

[gloomhound]

Are you asking my personal preference, my opinion of what Dnd in general should be, my opinion of what 4e currently is, or what?

Like I said, your game can be whatever you want. But the game as presented in the books, modules, and the Dnd encounters does in my opinion engender the entitlement mindset. As in, 'I'm entitled to a balanced encounter with no thought required beyond character creation and in combat tactics because that's the game as it is presented by the creators.' keep in mind, I'm not saying this 'entitlement' is a bad thing. In my mind, entitlement just means strong expectation, and those strong expectations are formed from the social contract between players and dm, and that contract is informed by the rules and the game as presented.

While I thank you for your time there is no need to answer.

My question was directed more toward what would be my opinion of a fun game and not toward entitlement in said game. Further discussion would only lead us further down the rabbit hole of off topics and into the realm of arguing opinion. A task that I loathe to take up.

 

[Lord Mhoram]

I've said it before every time this point comes up.

If I don't like how the base rules work, then it doesn't matter what kind of goodies I layer on top of a rotten foundation. If the fundamental mechanics are bleh to me, I'm not buying.

So far I really, really dislike the Ability Scores as Saves, and Opposed Rolls. Even if you tear those out, you're still tearing it out. Adding is easeier than subtracting.

Point taken. I was mostly talking about fast combat vs Detailed intricate combat.

 

[DMKastmaria]

In 4e, an ogre would be a level 8 threat. Against a single 1st level PC, he'd stomp a hole in them.

And in 1e, an Ogre would be a very tough opponent for a 1st level party. It could easily play out the same way. A 1e MU's Sleep spell would have a 50% of effecting an Ogre.

 

[Gundark]

Because it wasn't really the subject, it was an ignorant cheap shot at 4E players with the comments section turned off.

The author has written tons of stuff for 4e and has different 4e games on the go. I think your comments are not fair.

 

[Gundark]

a climatic combat should last a strong portion of the session. 30 to 45 minutes. i'd be diappointed with a boss battle that was 5 minutes. One time i wrapped up a dragon fight in 5 minutes, that failed miserably.

I agree a dragon fight should feel epic. And 5 minutes is most likely too short depends on how many rounds that is. However as had been pointed this could have been a bugbear or something.

Also we are assuming the players won. Maybe the boss took 5 minutes to cream the party.

 

[Piratecat]

They were adventuring in the Caves of Chaos, so the boss monster was probably a humanoid of some sort - most likely a slightly tougher goblinoid, maybe the ogre or minotaur.

 

[Thalionalfirin]

They were adventuring in the Caves of Chaos, so the boss monster was probably a humanoid of some sort - most likely a slightly tougher goblinoid, maybe the ogre or minotaur.

If I recall correctly, the minotaur was in the cave with the stirges.

I also vaguely recall that there were more than one ogre in the area. May have been two.

 

[ExploderWizard]

Apparently your idea of a "boss fight" differs from mine and many (most?) others. The BBEG is supposed to be climactic and tough, not just some gobbo to "mop up". If you back him in to a corner, he's dangerous.

I don't care if every other fight lasted only a few minutes, this is the big scene in the story. If there were extenuating circumstances it should have been written.

Well, in a roleplaying game, a boss fight is a fight in which the PCs do battle with a main bad guy or boss.

Thats it. It lasts as long as it lasts.

Doing anything to artificially stretch it out is turning from an rpg battle to a bad pro wrestling match.

Did you ever get to see any really awful wrestling matches from the 60's or 70's? I picture an artificially climactic boss fight looking like a pair of fat sweaty guys in tights sitting on the mat. One of them has the other in a headlock. They both sit there while the one guy keeps grinding that headlock.

Thats what inflated piles of hitpoints that exist for no other reason other than to make sure some chump stays in the fight X number of rounds until the PCs can get him to tap out by grinding that headlock. There are no effects that can mercifully end the torturous grind through the hit point pile except the DM calling it because his sanity was what was put in the headlock.

 

[trancejeremy]

Looking at my copy of B2, there are the following "bosses":

Minotaur - AC4, 36 hp

3rd level evil priest - AC: -1, 14 hit points

Gnoll Chief - AC3, 17 hp plus his two sons, AC 4, 10 hp each

Hobgoblin Chief - AC2, 22 hp, plus 4 females AC, 6 hp each

Ogre AC 4, 25 hp

Owl Bear (probably best avoided) AC5, hp 30

So I don't think 5 minutes is out of line. This was a beginner module, after all.

 

[Scribble]

Interesting - I've been running a 4E game for just about 2 years now, after finishing up a 2 1/2 year long 3.5E game in January of 2010.

I would agree with the first half of both of your sentences (4E quick to stat up, 3E took a long time), but 3.5E combats took way longer in play than 4E combats from what I've seen. 4E combats are still longer than 1E/2E, but I've found them much quicker than 3.5E. In the late stages of our 3.5E game, the combats would often take two entire sessions to finish.

I will qualify that by saying that my 3.5E group was huge - 8 players, plus a few key NPC allies/followers. They had so many options for attack and for defense, that it was impossible to challenge them with a "solo" monster or bad guy - I had to throw masses of bad guys at them.

I think I should re-state.

3e monsters took forever to stat up but got killed really quickly, not that the actual at table combat didn't take forver. I DID just for different reasons.

4e monsters are quick to stat up but can grind on way too long.

What I want is 4e monster birthing quickness that are able to stick around for a little bit but not long past their real usefulness.