D&D (2024) Another new interview with Perkins & Wyatt about the 2024 DMG

DinoInDisguise

A russian spy disguised as a t-rex.
They made books that are especially useful for new DM's. They advertise it as such. So I really don't see any foul play here.

Did they? In 2014 the DMG said nothing on pacing or table management. If you go and play with random DMs off reddit, the widespread abscense of those skills will be very evident.

Pacing in DMs, in general, is astonishingly bad. Basic ideas like not locking plot important information behind skill checks, varying the difficulty of fights, and avoiding overly long DM monologues are lacking in DMs across the experience spectrum. Once we get into more advanced concepts like rising tension, properly timing rewards, and managing split parties, the inadequecy becomes exponentially more pronounced. Some issues, like DMs taking 3 hours to run a low level combat with a single enemy come up way too often.

Basic ideas of table management such as how to handle distruptive players, or how to keep the game moving are, again, absent from large swaths of the DMs you'll see. Additional issues like being unwilling to dismiss players from the table, using in game punishment for out of game behavior, how to handle or give feedback, or simply being unwilling, or incapable, of talking to players about the game in a productive way also plague many tables and DMs.

You can go on the D&D horror stories sub-reddit and see that almost every one is due to a lack of understanding of one of the above principals. Yet, in another active thread, people cheer the inclusion of basic mechanical jargon like tables and bloated optional rules, while ignoring the defecienies that are so obvious in many DMs. Only to, in other threads, bemoan bad DMing.

So as a primarily 5e player, I think they are woefully lacking in the advice new DMs need to make them standout. Instead relying on making the mediocre, cookie cutter, DMing as easy as possible. Because it doesn't matter if people lack the skills to do something well, if everyone who has those skills is already hiding in a existing playgroup - so no one knows any better.

It is sad because these choices will deny many players the opportunity to experience the true joy that a good DM can bring. And anyone who has experienced this, and had to go back, will know exactly what I mean.
 
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Micah Sweet

Level Up & OSR Enthusiast
Did they? In 2014 the DMG said nothing on pacing or table management. If you go and play with random DMs off reddit, the widespread abscense of those skills will be very evident.

Pacing in DMs, in general, is astonishingly bad. Basic ideas like not locking plot important information behind skill checks, varying the difficulty of fights, and avoiding overly long DM monologues are endemic to DMs across the experience spectrum. Once we get into more advanced concepts like rising tension, properly timing rewards, and managing split parties, the inadequecy becomes exponentially more pronounced. Some issues, like DMs taking 3 hours to run a low level combat with a single enemy come up way too often.

Basic ideas of table management such as how to handle distruptive players, or how to keep the game moving are, again, absent from large swaths of the DMs you'll see. Additional issues like being unwilling to dismiss players from the table, using in game punishment for out of game behavior, how to handle or give feedback, or simply being unwilling, or incapable, of talking to players about the game in a productive way also plague many tables and DMs.

You can go on the D&D horror stories sub-reddit and see that almost every one is due to a lack of understanding of one of the above principals. Yet, in another active thread, people cheer the inclusion of basic mechanical jargon like tables and bloated optional rules, while ignoring the defecienies that are so obvious in many DMs. Only to, in other threads, bemoan bad DMing.

So as a primarily 5e player, I think they are woefully lacking in the advice new DMs need to make them standout. Instead relying on making the mediocre, cookie cutter, DMing as easy as possible. Because it doesn't matter if people lack the skills to do something well, if everyone who has those skills is already hiding in a existing playgroup - so no one knows any better.

It is sad because these choices will deny many players the opportunity to experience the true joy that a good DM can bring. And anyone who has experienced this, and had to go back, will know exactly what I mean.
A book covering these important principles designed to make better DMs would be great. It has never really been the DMG, however, which is mostly a rules toolbox and magic item repository. At this point, the DMibg stuff is ironically better served in another book IMO.
 



Did they? In 2014 the DMG said nothing on pacing or table management.
I did not speak of the 2014 book. I spoke about the 2024 books.
If you go and play with random DMs off reddit, the widespread abscense of those skills will be very evident.
This is why they tried to do better with the 2024 books.
Pacing in DMs, in general, is astonishingly bad. Basic ideas like not locking plot important information behind skill checks, varying the difficulty of fights, and avoiding overly long DM monologues are lacking in DMs across the experience spectrum. Once we get into more advanced concepts like rising tension, properly timing rewards, and managing split parties, the inadequecy becomes exponentially more pronounced. Some issues, like DMs taking 3 hours to run a low level combat with a single enemy come up way too often.
Ah now I know where you are trying to go with this.
Yes. They advertised that in their last video. What I mentioned in my first or second post. So the actually did advertise it. But this is what Micah Sweet seems to have not enough value to actually buy those books.
Basic ideas of table management such as how to handle distruptive players, or how to keep the game moving are, again, absent from large swaths of the DMs you'll see. Additional issues like being unwilling to dismiss players from the table, using in game punishment for out of game behavior, how to handle or give feedback, or simply being unwilling, or incapable, of talking to players about the game in a productive way also plague many tables and DMs.

You can go on the D&D horror stories sub-reddit and see that almost every one is due to a lack of understanding of one of the above principals. Yet, in another active thread, people cheer the inclusion of basic mechanical jargon like tables and bloated optional rules, while ignoring the defecienies that are so obvious in many DMs. Only to, in other threads, bemoan bad DMing.

So as a primarily 5e player, I think they are woefully lacking in the advice new DMs need to make them standout. Instead relying on making the mediocre, cookie cutter, DMing as easy as possible. Because it doesn't matter if people lack the skills to do something well, if everyone who has those skills is already hiding in a existing playgroup - so no one knows any better.
Do you have the 2024 book? Is it only cookie cutter advise? I don't have the book. I get the digital version tomorrow I guess. So maybe lets talk then.
It is sad because these choices will deny many players the opportunity to experience the true joy that a good DM can bring. And anyone who has experienced this, and had to go back, will know exactly what I mean.
Ok. Now you lost me.
 

DinoInDisguise

A russian spy disguised as a t-rex.
A book covering these important principles designed to make better DMs would be great. It has never really been the DMG, however, which is mostly a rules toolbox and magic item repository. At this point, the DMibg stuff is ironically better served in another book IMO.

It might be. But that book is never made, and instead we live in this fairy tale land where we blindly pretend the DMG serves that purpose. Only to have entire conversations about the DMG's failures while we laud the same behavior in the next DMG as a meaningful change for the better.

It is almost surreal watching this in real time.
 


Micah Sweet

Level Up & OSR Enthusiast
I did not get the impression they don't value old DMs. They explicitely said how the book is sprinkled with advice that old DMs can use well...

it is just that they don't build a book from the back to the front as the 2014 DM was... (and then for fun shuffle some pages).
They changed the purpose of a book for the same edition with the same name. You see nothing wrong with this?
 


They changed the purpose of a book for the same edition with the same name. You see nothing wrong with this?
Nope. Because from the TOC it seems that the improtant parts are still in. The guidelines to run a game. But better organized with actually teaching how to be a good DM (so it seems from the previews. I can say more when I read it).

The 2014 book had really nice optional tools in it that I will miss. But it was hard to use at the table if you actually searched something specific.
 

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