D&D 5E Anyone else think the Bard concept is just silly?

[Brandegoris]

I think the word you're looking for is "flamboyant".

Flamboyant D&D characters are the best kind, regardless of class. Gaming is the time when you can unleash your inner Shatner fused with your inner RuPaul while trying to kill Smaug.

At least in my experience.

i.e. Bards are fine. My last, long-term PC was a Paladin with some bard in him (that is, a 4e multiclass). I still miss dear old Sir Yatagan Fracas, Knight of the Order of Treasure, Paladin of the Dragon Within, and Keeper of the Codpiece God (it was a very small god in a box he kept in his pants).

BOOM. Thank you. Flamboyant fits very nicely .
I do appreciate that

And I am glad that some folks like flamboyant characters. If the game is in that vein and everyone loves it , that is great.
But in my experience ( and its just that; my experience only), every time someone plays a bard they act that way. They have a hard time making a bard that is capable of not ruining the mood of a serious minded game.
When you are fighting the dark Lord of Midnight and the fight is getting serious and the fate of the world is at stake and some prancing fool is using vicious Mockery fart jokes.... LOL

But I get that's a player problem as well, which is complicated unfortunately by how the Bard has been portrayed in D&D through the past. I am very glad that the Bard has been slowly getting overhauled so that it has many other options. the class mechanics itself are very good and they can be a very powerful character that the Dark Lord will not be happy to fight..

Then again...Maybe the fart Jokes are REALLY starting to piss him off...... He is the Dark Master after all, and this dude just doesn't seem to get that he should be very afraid.....

 

[doctorbadwolf]

That's a very thoughtful Post. Thank you

I will say that I think You are reading an awful lot into the fact that I used the word Pansy. I DID not say GAY. Straight people can act like a pansy too. If Pansy troubles you I can replace it with wimp? or say I don't like the Prancing bard?
It has nothing to do with his actual masculinity. You will note I didn't differentiate between male or female in my post. A Pansy female bard irritates me just as much. Pansy is just a delicate flower.

No ones reading into it, it's the standard usage of the term.

Even without any such intent, pansy as "delicate flower" or "wimp" is still a descriptor that makes me lose respect for the speaker, not the target. The idea that performing artistically makes one a "pansy" isn't any better than what you're defensively insisting you didn't mean to say.

 

[Uchawi]

In the magical world of D&D that bard fits in pretty well, a class like the champion fighter is just silly.

 

[Brandegoris]

No ones reading into it, it's the standard usage of the term.

Even without any such intent, pansy as "delicate flower" or "wimp" is still a descriptor that makes me lose respect for the speaker, not the target. The idea that performing artistically makes one a "pansy" isn't any better than what you're defensively insisting you didn't mean to say.

Performing artistically doesn't make you a wimp. I didn't say that in any way.

Please don't be the word police . I explained specifically that I wasn't referring to anyone's gender or sexual orientation. I clarified it. I will clarify it again.

I also did concede that the word I was groping for was Flamboyant. even so the word pansy isn't about who or what you like to . Its about being TOUGH instead of Delicate. You can be hetero as hell and still be lame in a combat situation or hate the sight of blood. This makes you delicate.
Delicate is NOT gay

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Performing artistically doesn't make you a wimp. I didn't say that in any way.

Please don't be the word police . I explained specifically that I wasn't referring to anyone's gender or sexual orientation. I clarified it. I will clarify it again.

I also did concede that the word I was groping for was Flamboyant. even so the word pansy isn't about who or what you like to . Its about being TOUGH instead of Delicate. You can be hetero as hell and still be lame in a combat situation or hate the sight of blood. This makes you delicate.
Delicate is NOT gay

You literally used it to describe someone dancing around. Literally just the idea that "dancing around like a pansy" is a valid way to describe something is, at best, deeply misguided.

Also, I never said that delicate = gay. What are you talking about?

The "singing and dancing around like a pansy" statement means that you are saying that dancing and singing, ie artistic performance, is a thing "pansies" do. Clarifying that you just meant "delicate" doesn't actually make it more respectable thing to say.

The idea that singing and dancing is for delicate people is best described by words that are hard to use to describe an idea without someone thinking you're also describing the person who said it, and thus a bit close to breaking the rules. It is...not a smart or well thought out notion. At best. At worst, it's an insult to anyone who does those things. Especially people who both do those things and do "tough" things like fight competitively.

Especially when it's said alongside a bunch of statements over the course of the thread that you can't take such people seriously as heroes in a fiction game.

 

[Garthanos]

In the magical world of D&D that bard fits in pretty well, a class like the champion fighter is just silly.

overly mundane?

 

[Lanliss]

No ones reading into it, it's the standard usage of the term.

Even without any such intent, pansy as "delicate flower" or "wimp" is still a descriptor that makes me lose respect for the speaker, not the target. The idea that performing artistically makes one a "pansy" isn't any better than what you're defensively insisting you didn't mean to say.

FWIW, I generally see it used in a similar way to what Brandegoris is saying he/she meant. It brings to mind one Jeopardy episode. the answer was "This flower name has been used to refer to left-wing liberals". One contestant answered "Pansy", while the correct answer was "Bleeding Heart"*.

In all honesty, the word pansy has never had any connotation with "gay" to me. I only use it in reference to people who whine like children about normal things that happen in adult life. I wouldn't personally use it in reference to a Flamboyant Musician, unless that musician complained when Orc blood got on his instrument and/or face.

Disclaimer: I was not on that jeopardy episode, and have no political view on how Pansy might apply to one or more people of a specific political leaning.

*I am aware this treads dangerously close to the "No politics" rule, and I apologize to the mods. I do not mean this to be about politics at all, just an example of word use I have seen.

 

[Lanliss]

You literally used it to describe someone dancing around. Literally just the idea that "dancing around like a pansy" is a valid way to describe something is, at best, deeply misguided.

Also, I never said that delicate = gay. What are you talking about?

The "singing and dancing around like a pansy" statement means that you are saying that dancing and singing, ie artistic performance, is a thing "pansies" do. Clarifying that you just meant "delicate" doesn't actually make it more respectable thing to say.

The idea that singing and dancing is for delicate people is best described by words that are hard to use to describe an idea without someone thinking you're also describing the person who said it, and thus a bit close to breaking the rules. It is...not a smart or well thought out notion. At best. At worst, it's an insult to anyone who does those things. Especially people who both do those things and do "tough" things like fight competitively.

Especially when it's said alongside a bunch of statements over the course of the thread that you can't take such people seriously as heroes in a fiction game.

Ah, I see I misunderstood you as well, ignore at least part of my last post.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

FWIW, I generally see it used in a similar way to what Brandegoris is saying he/she meant. It brings to mind one Jeopardy episode. the answer was "This flower name has been used to refer to left-wing liberals". One contestant answered "Pansy", while the correct answer was "Bleeding Heart"*.

In all honesty, the word pansy has never had any connotation with "gay" to me. I only use it in reference to people who whine like children about normal things that happen in adult life. I wouldn't personally use it in reference to a Flamboyant Musician, unless that musician complained when Orc blood got on his instrument and/or face.

Disclaimer: I was not on that jeopardy episode, and have no political view on how Pansy might apply to one or more people of a specific political leaning.

*I am aware this treads dangerously close to the "No politics" rule, and I apologize to the mods. I do not mean this to be about politics at all, just an example of word use I have seen.

Ah, I see I misunderstood you as well, ignore at least part of my last post.

No worries!

I'm not even overly fond of the practice of insulting people for being delicate, and don't think much of people who do it habitually, but yeah, while "pansy" is frequently used to insult people for being delicate, I've also seen it used quite a lot alongside words these forums don't allow, starting with F and Q. And effeminate. Another term that doesn't always mean "gay", but does often enough that the connotation shouldn't be completely ignored.

The main thing, though, is that "pansy" always denotes weakness, and the idea that someone who sings and dances is weak is just...eyeroll educingly poorly thought out.

 

[Lanliss]

No worries!

I'm not even overly fond of the practice of insulting people for being delicate, and don't think much of people who do it habitually, but yeah, while "pansy" is frequently used to insult people for being delicate, I've also seen it used quite a lot alongside words these forums don't allow, starting with F and Q. And effeminate. Another term that doesn't always mean "gay", but does often enough that the connotation shouldn't be completely ignored.

The main thing, though, is that "pansy" always denotes weakness, and the idea that someone who sings and dances is weak is just...eyeroll educingly poorly thought out.

There are examples of such characters, and it is hardly the fault of the OP if some people specifically portray their Bard as that type of character. Scanlan from Critical Role for example, was portrayed as extremely weak and whiny. Any time someone recommended he draw his sword he would loudly complain "I don't know how to use that!". When he did eventually use swords, he generally did so with his eyes closed and flailing blindly.

Spoilers about CR if you aren't caught up. If you don't care, feel free to click.
[sblock]Now the player is playing an Artificer, who acts even weaker. Might just be a kind of character the player likes.[/sblock]

I can certainly agree with your point that Dancing and Art do not automatically make someone weak (After all, aren't we all artists just for playing D&D?), but there is certainly a connection that media likes to construct between these traits.