Nope! You can get what you can sell it for, no more no less. There is no defined rate at which items sell for. I use free markets in games I play.
Anyone importing 4E’s’Used gear sells for 1/5th if at all’ to other RPG systems?
- Thread starter frankthedm
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Fifth Element
Legend
No less? You can't find someone to offer you less than the maximum you'll be offered?
Thasmodious
First Post
It's not artificially low and it does make sense. It's not just some arbitrary number that exists in a vacuum. It's part of a system that backs up the design assumptions of 4e. 20% doesn't exist in a vacuum and makes sense both within the rules system its a part of (as a control) and in the default game world.
50% made sense in 3e. It was part of an assumption that included a robust magic item market, that included easily accessible shops and an existing trade. 50% for an easy turnaround profit at market value as a baseline. The 50% matched the half market materials cost and said that a magic item was basically worth its component cost. This gelled with the assumed wealth by level and the ease of upgrade for characters. It was a component of the complete system.
The same is true for 4e, just the default assumptions have changed. There is not an assumption of a robust magic item trade and plentiful magic shops. Instead, the assumption is a PoL setting where such trade would be expensive and dangerous, where customers would be few and far between. There isn't much of a sustainable market. Magic items are still worth their component cost, same as in 3e, only that cost is now 20% in ressidium rather than 50% in materials. This is also part of the overall economic system that gels with the expected item wealth by level, treasure parcel system, and so forth.
If you're just hung up thinking that nothing sells for 20% of its market value then plenty of posters have already given numerous examples in real world economics where similar numbers are the norm. And, of course, in any system, these are baselines from which the group and DM are free to work from. If the group wants to spend a lot of time haggling, or search for their own buyers, or start their own more even trade by meeting fellow adventurers and setting up some kind of item share plan, whatever works for the group. But in both 3e and 4e, the economies work from the game's basic assumptions.
Wisdom Penalty
First Post
Great answer, Thas, and supporting logic. I, for one, like the absence of the Magical War Marts seen in the past. But I'm not sure the 20/50 component cost rule you use works when applied to mundane gear. For magic items -yes. For mundane gear - not so much.
Perhaps these are two separate issues - in fact, I'm certain they are - but the harder pill for me to swallow was the "PCs don't fiddle with mundane gear" approach the DMG purports as a general rule. Of course, in play, I've found this subtle (or not so subtle) change is a good one when measured on the Fun Meter, which is where - ultimately - everything should be measured.
Regardless, I think the OP's question about porting the 4e cost basis into other systems is a tough row to hoe, for all those reasons you articulated.
WP
Perhaps these are two separate issues - in fact, I'm certain they are - but the harder pill for me to swallow was the "PCs don't fiddle with mundane gear" approach the DMG purports as a general rule. Of course, in play, I've found this subtle (or not so subtle) change is a good one when measured on the Fun Meter, which is where - ultimately - everything should be measured.
Regardless, I think the OP's question about porting the 4e cost basis into other systems is a tough row to hoe, for all those reasons you articulated.
WP
Nope, because a deal is final, and a merchant who backs out on a deal is beheaded. The merchant never has a choice to not accept a trade of goods when a price has been given, but the players may.
Guilds are not something to screw around with.
Fifth Element
Legend
So are you saying characters in your game always get the best price from the very first person they deal with?
I'm not talking about someone offering a price and then reneging. I'm talking about the fact that often the first person will offer you less than you could get elsewhere.
Equipment is treasure. The game should not try and make treasure worth less to the PCs and more to NPCs. Why not hire an NPC to sell treasure by proxy otherwise and get the full 100% price? What about trade, taking items from a cheap place to an expensive place for profit? Maybe it is the magic item creation rules? Maybe they should make magic items treasure or the result of treasure (gold) instead of a product PCs can produce? Or if they can produce it the production is an adventure like everything else they do is an adventure? If PCs can craft their own armor for hefty profits, then why not stay home and craft for money versus risking your life?
Mustrum_Ridcully
Legend
There is a difference between selling loot and trading items.
Loot comes from questionable sources and is loaded off quickly.
Trade is between established partners that gained mutual trust, using trade routes and including time to find the right customers.
There is a difference between "Hey local item shop owner, here I#ve got a small sized +2 Chainmail. It's blood soaked and stinks like a Orc. The guy we took it from doesn't need it anymore, and we don't have a need either. Would you take it?" and "Greetings, Mr. Farmsworth. I recently acquired a set of magical trinkets of Dwarven origin. Would you like to take a look at them? I am certain their might be something of interest for your clients among them. The next shipment to Farshore will be in two weeks, so I think you'll have enough time to estimate their value to you."
If PCs don't want to go adventuring and instead want to go into the trading business, sure, they can do that. They will probably run a lot of skill challenges instead of combats. The treasure that the encounter guidelines "promise" them will become the result of their trade. For the characters, it will look like they get full (or even better then full) money for the items they sell, while the behind the scenes mechanic make the difference between 20 % normally gained from selling loot and the 100% (or more) gained from trade with magical items be part of the adventuring rewards.
You do keep making these wonderful statements! I'm gonna have to collect them together somewhere for posterity!
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