No I was claiming 4e said epic was core and didn't deliver that (marketing speak, nothing about the game "story" which I don't really care that much about). As I think we have identified at this point my idea of epic is different than yours. I also didn't say 5e succeed. In fact, I repeatedly said it was OK, or they didn't do enough. How is that succeeding? I mean, it just seems like you are not even really looking at what I am writing. I did say I like the idea of epic boons better than 10 more levels. Finally, I never said 4e should have levels beyond 30, not sure where you got that.
Ok I am wrong , everything you think is correct and there could be no way I could have preferred something different than what 4e provided. It was all a mirage.
Fantastic! You caught me I am completely wrong and will start playing 4e again! I simple am not talking about the descriptions of the tiers of play. And I never have been.
I wasn't talking about your preference or it being wrong either just really your translation between the two games you were comparing apples beyond end game to oranges the lead up to it.
Interesting, you keep talking about the cool things martials can do in 4e (which I agree with), yet you highlight a magic power!
I see your point, but I don't think those description particularly map on to the actual game. Regardless, I didn't hold my 4e games to the tier descriptions and I don't hold my 5e games to them either.
What does "epic:" mean sans story?
nods I exaggerated oooh.
I did not say you did say that, I was saying that is where you would get the adventuring post what 4e called epic destiny and what 5e called its transformative destiny where a druid might become a nature spirit and so on level 20 and level 30. To me I see it as 4e made no suggestion for adventuring beyond the finale.
To a degree you can even pick more human epic destinies and or describe things way more mundane in 4e too. Stretch the tiers by actual choices along side the presentations. If you have player buy in the genre can be adjusted.
I feel it is an option that is perhaps a bit off the scale but definitely epic and more speaks to whether even more could be done in 4e yes so yes I will agree that based on my standards I too think 4e could have leveraged up the epic of epic tier, just not thinking it takes different tools. Nothing like it is in 5e either I would suspect.
I think 4es description mapped better. With characters exceeding human range of attributes and the out classing of other tier enemies and obstacles and the like 5e actively strove not to do that.
