D&D 4E Anyone playing 4e at the moment?

[AbdulAlhazred]

The one man army concept had some expression in early AD&D (though it almost never happened in practice) and also imagery of Conan or Elric Standing on heaps but it is much older go back to myths of Cu Chulainn who was described as standing on a chariot and using his weaponry to mow through the hordes of enemies on all sides as the chariot drove through. And is now vividly all over the place in a lot of modern fantasy yes some arguably D&D inspired and coming from Asia. A recent King Arthur movie had an Excalibur super charged Arthur doing something which felt like time dilation and the super sonic movement dave mentioned to attack hordes of enemies similar to the sword mage ability he also kicked up huge amounts of scenery in the process Yes in the story it was a magic item but to build that in 4e I would very much use a multiclass into the Swordmage for that paragon path and attribute the power to his special relationship with the artifact (he had to learn to control it).

Cuh Chulaine was actually presented as an example fighter in the 2e PHB and his story was very much about him being a prodigal youth learn at a very early age faster and better than those who taught him many "feats", arguably this is where D&D got the word feat too.

Well, my level 12+ AD&D Ranger, with some really stupid powerful items, was able to WADE THROUGH A SEA OF DEMONS and due to vampiric regeneration GAIN hit points every round (and there was no limit to how many you could get that way, lol). It did require some of the most powerful items in the game though. Still, it was pretty amusing, until the DM started wondering what having 5000 demon hit points would do to you...

 

[Garthanos]

Well, my level 12+ AD&D Ranger, with some really stupid powerful items,

The DMG had this big diatribe recommending taking that kind of thing away at the drop of a hat because you know Gygax.

The real problem with the fighters multi-attack is nobody used the zero hit die adversaries.

 

[Lyxen]

Well, my level 12+ AD&D Ranger, with some really stupid powerful items, was able to WADE THROUGH A SEA OF DEMONS and due to vampiric regeneration GAIN hit points every round (and there was no limit to how many you could get that way, lol). It did require some of the most powerful items in the game though. Still, it was pretty amusing, until the DM started wondering what having 5000 demon hit points would do to you...

Exact;y my kind of experience with AD&D. And I agree that it was quite swingy, and could get a bit silly, but in terms of scale it was way beyond what all other editions except BECMI allowed you to do (except 3e, but it was a question of time and complexity).

 

[Garthanos]

The rogue thief was worse than a sidekick his abilities were superseded by a yellow notepad full of tricks to avoid the rogue thief doing anything and if you wanted it reliable you had the wizard do it.

 

[Garthanos]

@Lyxen I will say I have no experience with BECMI could you elaborate

I very much consider magic item dependence with basically nothing telling DMs that except a Dragon Mag article years later a flaw not a feature. No effective guidelines about level appropriate hardware existed either.

 

[Garthanos]

Oh wait I actually remembered I have a copy of the Immortal rules from that grabbed it in some bargain bin long after I was not playing D&D out of curiosity I can look and see how they do scale myself.

 

[EzekielRaiden]

I guess I just don't understand why "epic" needs to radically differ from the entire rest of the system.

Isn't the point of a "system" to be flexible and comprehensive enough to cover pretty much everything that is doable, either through explicit coverage (specific rules*), or through implicit extension (open frameworks that can be adapted to nearly any need**)?

What's so beneficial about "okay, everything you did before doesn't matter"?

*Example: the 4e weapons chart. Long specific list of weapons. Lots of options, and the ability to refluff if you want a particular appearance paired with a particular mechanic or set of mechanics.
**Example: the breadth of 4e skills, page 42, skill challenges. Things that are less about the details of specific instances, and more about enabling diverse and creative behaviors via effective mechanical benefits or appropriate off-the-cuff challenge levels.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

@Lyxen I will say I have no experience with BECMI could you elaborate

I very much consider magic item dependence with basically nothing telling DMs that except a Dragon Mag article years later a flaw not a feature. No effective guidelines about level appropriate hardware existed either.

Well, this is the ultimate expression of what is mislabeled 'flexibility'. Oddly this is one area where 5e doesn't seem to emulate AD&D... OTOH from what I've seen most of the AD&D DMG1 magic items are reproduced in pretty similar fashion. So it is probably more a matter of how generous the GM is with them. My experience was we got very few items, but that may simply reflect the people I played with.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

I guess I just don't understand why "epic" needs to radically differ from the entire rest of the system.

Isn't the point of a "system" to be flexible and comprehensive enough to cover pretty much everything that is doable, either through explicit coverage (specific rules), or through implicit extension (open frameworks that can be adapted to nearly any need)?

What's so beneficial about "okay, everything you did before doesn't matter"?

I think it is more a question of there being a different TONE, and one way to achieve that would be to effectively tack a different set of advancement rules onto the game. In the case of 5e I don't think it is particularly effective. What is provided is not going to be enough to really alter play in any great respect. 4e Epic is certainly AT LEAST as much different from other tiers as whatever you'd get playing 20+ 5e with boons.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

As a DM my favorite part was not hiding behind the curtain features... a 4th level fighter a 4th level swordmage and a 4th level warden could all play very different but handle the same type of citation.