Applying ASF to Divine Spells

[Viktyr Gehrig]

In this thread about Arcane Spell Failure, there's a bit of an argument over why Spell Failure from armor doesn't apply to divine magic.

Already, in my games, I've changed the armor rules considerably-- both changing the effects of armor and which classes gain which armor proficiencies. Particularly of note, no class gains Heavy Armor proficiency at 1st level (Fighters gain an extra bonus feat at 3rd level to make up for this.)

What I've done at this point is to change the rules so that the Arcane Spell Failure chance from wearing armor applies to both arcane and divine magic. The Cleric and Favored Soul gain the ability to ignore spell failure in Light and Medium Armors (all they're proficient with), and the Druid and Ranger gain the ability to ignore spell failure in Light Armor.

Paladins are a Prestige Class in my House Rules, and they get to ignore spell failure in any non-powered armor. They also replace their normal spellcasting ability with +1 divine caster level every odd level. (They require the ability to cast 1st level divine spells and the ability to turn undead, forcing them to have at least one level of either Cleric or Favored Soul.)

All of these, of course, only apply to the spells granted by the class that gets to ignore armor. Cleric/Wizards gain no benefit for their Wizard spells.

I've also changed the prerequisites for Battle Caster; instead of requiring a class-based ability to ignore armor, Battle Caster requires the Combat Casting feat and proficiency in the class of armor the feat will apply to. (This prevents Wizards from taking it in Heavy Armor and ignoring the mainly irrelevant non-proficiency penalties.) It can be taken multiple times, first granting the ability to cast spells in Light armor, then Medium, and then Heavy.

Directly, it seems this rule has very little impact on the game, aside from giving Wizards and Sorcerors a better chance to gain the ability to cast spells in armor. Divine casters generally have the ability to ignore the spell failure chance from all the armors they're proficient in.

However, it makes the feat investment for armor-wearing divine casters heavier-- in order to gain the ability to wear Heavy armor, a Cleric has to devote a feat to both Heavy Armor Proficiency and Battle Caster. Druids need to take Battle Caster in order to cast spells in Hide Armor. And the poor Shugenja can no longer take a single level in Fighter in order to be able to cast spells in any type of armor she fancies.

It also tends to reduce the desirability of classes which grant armored spellcasting, such as the Spellsword or the Bladesinger. Some divine PrCs will have to be adjusted to grant this capacity, as well.

I'm torn as to whether or not to introduce some limit or weakness in psionics use to compensate. Power Failure from armor doesn't strike me as appropriate-- but I can't think of any good alternatives just yet, and I'm not entirely certain they're required.

Any comments?

 

[Shariell]

I think in most campaign ASF applied to devine magic is not a good choice at all, but, in a very special setting could work.
To me, cleric is like a holy templar, not like a priest, thus my view of them impose no chance of spell failure. But it's just me of course

Your rules are good at a first glance, did you have already playtested them?
Maybe a fighter with no dex bonus, in a very low level game, is dramatically hit from the lack of a heavy armor.
Fighters already are the weakest class in the game, maybe hit them once more could be a problem in terms of balance.

 

[Sadrik]

In my game clerics have no somatic components if they have their holy symbol on their person. However if they dont have it they suffer somatic components and in turn ASF.

 

[gamecat]

Fighters already are the weakest class in the game, maybe hit them once more could be a problem in terms of balance.

[blink] Double-you-Tee-Eff? [blink]

You, my friend, should play a bard.

 

[Shariell]

[blink] Double-you-Tee-Eff? [blink]

You, my friend, should play a bard.

oh yes...you're right...I miss the bard... so fighters are seconds

 

[farscapesg1]

I like the idea. I've always been against the whole "wizard's can't wear armor" thing, while allowing the clerics to cast their spells in armor. With all the new spells and rules that have come out for the divine casters, they are (debatably) as strong or stronger than wizards when it comes to offensive magic.

 

[Merlion]

To me, cleric is like a holy templar, not like a priest,

then why do they get 9 levels of spells?


Why are they refered to as priests, shown in the role of priests, and given the flavour of priests?

 

[Merlion]

But as to the original post...I dont really see the point in making Divine magic subject to armor based spell failure...and then just letting them ignore it again.

 

[Viktyr Gehrig]

But as to the original post...I dont really see the point in making Divine magic subject to armor based spell failure...and then just letting them ignore it again.

More of a consistency issue than anything else-- plus, it forces Clerics to invest feats in the use of Heavy Armor while casting. I could probably cut them down to Ignore Spell Failure (Light) and give them Medium at some later level, like Warmages.

It also makes a major difference for divine casters who don't start with armor proficiencies, like the Shugenja, or for divine PrCs that grant their own spell lists. It makes armored spellcasting a class-by-class issue, instead of simply an issue of the type of magic they use.

 

[Merlion]

It also makes a major difference for divine casters who don't start with armor proficiencies, like the Shugenja, or for divine PrCs that grant their own spell lists. It makes armored spellcasting a class-by-class issue, instead of simply an issue of the type of magic they use

I'm all for that, I just dont understand the part about letting clerics automatically ignore spell failure of any sort, unless theres some sort of in game reason for it (like I would have no problem with making 90% of Bard spells verbal only, and thereby not subject to any sort of spell failure).


It still continues a precedent that Clerics and Druids somehow have an easier time with armored casting of somatic component spells than other classes.