D&D 5E Apprentice Wizard- Arcane Burst power

[I'm A Banana]

The apprentice wizard is expected to last all of 3-5 rounds in combat.

This is the wrong way to think of monsters.

In terms of gameplay, the apprentice wizard is a character (in terms of something you perform as, not in terms of being a PC). The statblock is a tool that you can use to help portray that character. Maybe that character only needs to exist for 3-5 rounds of combat, but it's a character, just like a town guard or the surly old guy at the inn or the PC's sister. It's something you can imagine your PC wizard once was, and you can imagine that the apprentice wizard wishes to become a more powerful wizard.

The arcane burst breaks the fourth wall, hurts suspension of disbelief, and punishes player engagement with the world. It's artificial and kludgy. It's a wrestler looking at the audience and saying "Don't worry, we're not REALLY going to hurt each other, folks!" It's bad, and it doesn't have to be bad.

Except for all the NPCs whose sword attacks deal more damage than a regular sword, or who can attack more often with it than a high level fighter can.

How bad this breaks kayfabe is up to the NPC's role in the world.

If the green recruit statblock includes a "martial strike" ability that works as a melee or ranged attack that deals 2d8+7 damage and can be used three times, yes, that would be a sign that the rules are made up and the points don't matter. Every new recruit knows how to do this and they suddenly lose the ability at some point. Feel free to disengage folks, we don't take our world seriously, either.

If the elite mercenary statblock has the same thing...it's less severe. Still a little weird (melee or ranged attack? So like some throwing weapon?), but less egregious.

If the horrible multi-armed monster statblock has the same thing, maybe it's even "Yeah, sure, okay," and we all go on with our day.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

In terms of gameplay, the apprentice wizard is a character (in terms of something you perform as, not in terms of being a PC). The statblock is a tool that you can use to help portray that character.

No. You might have a character in your game who is an apprentice wizard, but they do not need a stat block unless they get into a fight with the PCs.

And the Apprentice Wizard statblock can be used to represent any low powered spellcaster who the PCs happen to get into a fight with.

 

[the Jester]

I'm not a fan, because the first thing the mage PC is going to ask is "how do I learn that spell?" and "you can't" is a lousy response.

"You have to take levels in the npc 'mage' class, which is vastly inferior to pc options" is what I settled on in 3e when making custom stuff. In other words, you can, but it will cost you more than you gain.

 

[UngainlyTitan]

This is the wrong way to think of monsters.

It is the right way to think of statblocks. Player character stats and monster stats being derived from the same building blocks has no place in 5e. This was at the heart of 3.x and in my opinion produced more work for less reward. 5e has never built monster stat blocks in the same way as characters.

In terms of gameplay, the apprentice wizard is a character (in terms of something you perform as, not in terms of being a PC). The statblock is a tool that you can use to help portray that character. Maybe that character only needs to exist for 3-5 rounds of combat, but it's a character, just like a town guard or the surly old guy at the inn or the PC's sister. It's something you can imagine your PC wizard once was, and you can imagine that the apprentice wizard wishes to become a more powerful wizard.

The arcane burst breaks the fourth wall, hurts suspension of disbelief, and punishes player engagement with the world. It's artificial and kludgy. It's a wrestler looking at the audience and saying "Don't worry, we're not REALLY going to hurt each other, folks!" It's bad, and it doesn't have to be bad.



How bad this breaks kayfabe is up to the NPC's role in the world.

If the green recruit statblock includes a "martial strike" ability that works as a melee or ranged attack that deals 2d8+7 damage and can be used three times, yes, that would be a sign that the rules are made up and the points don't matter. Every new recruit knows how to do this and they suddenly lose the ability at some point. Feel free to disengage folks, we don't take our world seriously, either.

If the elite mercenary statblock has the same thing...it's less severe. Still a little weird (melee or ranged attack? So like some throwing weapon?), but less egregious.

If the horrible multi-armed monster statblock has the same thing, maybe it's even "Yeah, sure, okay," and we all go on with our day.

Monster stat blocks are to give a DM way to build interesting combat encounters. You can want it to occur differently but that is not the direction D&D is going.

 

[I'm A Banana]

No. You might have a character in your game who is an apprentice wizard, but they do not need a stat block unless they get into a fight with the PCs.

Stat blocks are not just combat tools (though this is one of their more important functions).

And the Apprentice Wizard statblock can be used to represent any low powered spellcaster who the PCs happen to get into a fight with.

Yeah, you can kludge it.

But it's designed and named as an Apprentice Wizard. So you should be able to use it as an Apprentice Wizard. Without having to wave your hand and say "well, not really in this respect, this is purely a mechanical construct for combat design, and doesn't really happen in the world, because there's nothing in the world like this ability really."

 

[Remathilis]

This is the wrong way to think of monsters.

In terms of gameplay, the apprentice wizard is a character (in terms of something you perform as, not in terms of being a PC). The statblock is a tool that you can use to help portray that character. Maybe that character only needs to exist for 3-5 rounds of combat, but it's a character, just like a town guard or the surly old guy at the inn or the PC's sister. It's something you can imagine your PC wizard once was, and you can imagine that the apprentice wizard wishes to become a more powerful wizard.

The arcane burst breaks the fourth wall, hurts suspension of disbelief, and punishes player engagement with the world. It's artificial and kludgy. It's a wrestler looking at the audience and saying "Don't worry, we're not REALLY going to hurt each other, folks!" It's bad, and it doesn't have to be bad.



How bad this breaks kayfabe is up to the NPC's role in the world.

If the green recruit statblock includes a "martial strike" ability that works as a melee or ranged attack that deals 2d8+7 damage and can be used three times, yes, that would be a sign that the rules are made up and the points don't matter. Every new recruit knows how to do this and they suddenly lose the ability at some point. Feel free to disengage folks, we don't take our world seriously, either.

If the elite mercenary statblock has the same thing...it's less severe. Still a little weird (melee or ranged attack? So like some throwing weapon?), but less egregious.

If the horrible multi-armed monster statblock has the same thing, maybe it's even "Yeah, sure, okay," and we all go on with our day.

A bandit captain (CR2) has three attacks, equal to an 11th level fighter.

Gladiators (CR 5) attack three times and do an extra weapon dice of damage.

Neither of them are exactly paragons of combat, but the rules break for them. It's the only way to get the math to work. (I saw 3e's way, I never want to see it again). At a certain point, you accept monsters (and NPCs ) either work differently or you end up with rocket tag combat.

 

[I'm A Banana]

It is the right way to think of statblocks. Player character stats and monster stats being derived from the same building blocks has no place in 5e. This was at the heart of 3.x and in my opinion produced more work for less reward. 5e has never built monster stat blocks in the same way as characters.

Strawman. Not what I'm arguing.

Monster stat blocks are to give a DM way to build interesting combat encounters. You can want it to occur differently but that is not the direction D&D is going.

I mean, I'm complaining about it in a thread literally asking for opinions on it, so what are you trying to police here?

 

[Paul Farquhar]

Stat blocks are not just combat tools (though this is one of their more important functions).

Yes, yes they are. You might not like it, but that is how 5e works.

Yeah, you can kludge it.

But it's designed and named as an Apprentice Wizard. So you should be able to use it as an Apprentice Wizard. Without having to wave your hand and say "well, not really in this respect, this is purely a mechanical construct for combat design, and doesn't really happen in the world, because there's nothing in the world like this ability really."

You don't need to kludge anything. So far as the players are concerned the character, whatever they may be, is shooting bolts of energy, however the DM fluffs it, at the party. They don't know what it is or how it works. It's the same for the PCs. As Tasha's suggests, the PC can make their Magic Missile spell shoot chickens, and call it Woodruff's Chikenizer.

 

[NotAYakk]

Strawman. Not what I'm arguing.

If someone misunderstands your point and interprets it as an adjacent position to yours, try presuming good faith.

And explain what you are arguing better and clearer and distinguish it from the position they seem to think you are holding.

I mean, I'm complaining about it in a thread literally asking for opinions on it, so what are you trying to police here?

You are being disagreed with, and the person disagreeing with you is using a clear set of logic to explain why. Do you not want to be disagreed with? Because that is the only thing that I can see coming across here. "You are making a sound argument why I am wrong, and I don't want you to".

Or maybe you don't think the argument is a good one - that D&D 5e uses monster stat blocks mainly as a tool for DMs to use in combat, and leaves non-combat details up to the DM for the 5% of the time that a stat block isn't being used as a source of a foe to fight in a combat. Or maybe you disagree with 5e's position, and think 5e should stop doing that - in which case, actually disagree with that, and not the mere fact that people disagree with you!

 

[bedir than]

This isn't a custom spell. It's a spell (or effect or attack or something) that already exists in the game, it's just not in the player's hands. And there's no good reason for it not to be in the player's hands.

The game has always had powers that the players can't get. A dragonborn doesn't breathe the same fire a red dragon does. PCs don't get lair actions.
Why is this spell different?

In terms of gameplay, the apprentice wizard is a character (in terms of something you perform as, not in terms of being a PC). The statblock is a tool that you can use to help portray that character. Maybe that character only needs to exist for 3-5 rounds of combat, but it's a character, just like a town guard or the surly old guy at the inn or the PC's sister. It's something you can imagine your PC wizard once was, and you can imagine that the apprentice wizard wishes to become a more powerful wizard.

Your PC was never a two skill 5th level Wizard that used the wrong hit dice