Are knowledge skills worth it?

[MoogleEmpMog]

IMC, I have knowledge skills pared down to the following:

Knowledge (arcana)
Knowledge (politics)
Knowledge (religion)
Knowledge (science)
Knowledge (tactics)

Some of the other knowledge skills are effectively subsumed into other skills - Knowledge (nature) into Survival, for example. The five I have, however, see a lot of use.

I can see that most of the players came in with a standard D&D mindset. Few took Knowledge (politics) or Knowledge (tactics). The one who did has benefited so much from both that others have started to pick them up.

EDIT: I also sometimes write up Knowledge DC charts, particularly for a creature or NPC the players have never seen before. Where locations and objects are concerned, I normally handle it on the fly.

 

[AuraSeer]

IMO, the current Knowledge skills are way too specific. On average you have to spend too many points to be even consistantly hitting DC 15 knowledge checks.

Take 10 more often. A beginning wizard with 16 Int and 2 ranks in a Knowledge skill can make that DC 15 check every single time, out of combat.

 

[Piratecat]

I love this idea! Now I will just have to think of what I can do to implement it into my game.

I do this too in my high-lvl game, and it works really well. Most recently I've done it with knowledge (planes), where I'll have separate (and accumulating) information for knowledge checks of DC 20, 25, 30, 35, and 40. I just rip the sheet of paper in half at the right spot and give the rest of it to the player.

 

[Alhazred]

I love Knowledge skills. As a DM, I encourage players purchase ranks in Knowledge (Arcana), (History), (Local), (Nature) and (Religion). The more ranks a player has, the more information I volunteer when the players are considering a course of action. ("Since Torinth has 8 ranks in Knowledge (Religion), he is familiar with canon law. Consequently, he knows that raising charges of heresy against the primate without physical proof may result in the primate charging the party with slander - a very serious charge in canon law.")

If players wish to specialise - for instance Knowledge (Religion - Undead) - I'll happily permit a raft of bonuses. In this example, the player may receive synergy bonuses similar to a ranger with Undead as his Favoured Enemy, or an additional +2 to Turn Checks, or lower the DC threshold for player questions concerning undead habits (physiology, psychology, etc.) This level of specialisation is great for campaigns with a very specific focus or for players who want to focus their characters.

Oh, and ForceUser, I may just have to yoink your idea!

 

[Amal Shukup]

I do this too in my high-lvl game, and it works really well. Most recently I've done it with knowledge (planes), where I'll have separate (and accumulating) information for knowledge checks of DC 20, 25, 30, 35, and 40. I just rip the sheet of paper in half at the right spot and give the rest of it to the player.

Oh. Wow....

A'Mal

 

[CRGreathouse]

I use Knowledge skill extensively in my games. In fact, they're popular enough that I split one skill up (K (arcana) -> K (arcana) and K (magic)). I probably call for about 20-30 Knowledge checks per (5 hour) session.

The most popular skill is probably the new Knowledge (arcana), followed by religion and magic. Knowledge (nobility and royalty) just edges out Knowledge (local) for least popular, I think.

 

[Starglim]

Unlike most skills, Knowledge benefits the whole party rather than just the character who has the skill.

Rather than 20 skill points across 5 knowledge skills (which, by the previous poster's argument, should be perfectly adequate to hit DC 15 for a character who has sufficient Intelligence to have 20 skill points at 1st-2nd level) you can consider that the party wizard has Knowledge (arcana) maxed plus some ranks in another Knowledge skill, the ranger has Knowledge (nature), the cleric has Knowledge (religion) to identify her enemies, and one other character has another suitable knowledge skill. Thus the party as a whole has a complete range of Knowledge without an onerous amount of skill spending for any one character.

I agree that there are too many Knowledge skills, though, particularly the ones that don't cover any definable area of game play but seem to be in the list as a result of someone asking "OK, let's brainstorm all the things that someone might know about". I think a good start would be to merge into other skills all the Knowledge categories that don't have any creature type or synergy bonus, and to make two skills at the most out of the group (local), (geography), (history) and (nobility and royalty).

 

[Morpheus]

In the Eberron campaign we are playing, knowledge skills are vital because they help the PCs get access to information that the players don't have at all (with Eberron being so new and all). you should see the look on the cleric's face when I ask for a Know(Religion) roll to determing how good a sermon he gives in front of the High Priest. A 7!?! That can't be good...

 

[ForceUser]

I want to play in your game so bad I can taste it.

High praise! Would that my players were so enthusiastic about handouts.

 

[Crothian]

High praise! Would that my players were so enthusiastic about handouts.

I love handouts, I want to use more in my own games but players complain and loose them...