FrogReaver
As long as i get to be the frog
Imagine if every class with a Extra attack had Martial Takedown, Grab and Strike and Pressing Attack. As cantrips
You have to use the samey words remember
Exact same vs samey. There is a difference.
Imagine if every class with a Extra attack had Martial Takedown, Grab and Strike and Pressing Attack. As cantrips
You have to use the samey words remember
Yes my samey grab and strike is only available to a specialist ... where as your same every sword monkey has it. The classes are all samey instead.Exact same vs samey. There is a difference.
To be honest I find short rest mechanics far more similar in 5e to long rest mechanics than 4e encounter and daily,
Yes my samey grab and strike is only available to a specialist ... where as your same every sword monkey has it. The classes are all samey instead.
Imagine if 5e presented itself like 4e did. Where every overlapping spell was presented separately with each class - healing word appearing six times in exactly the same form. Well, really, virtually every single spell and combat style in the game appears in at least two classes. We'd see the exact same criticisms of saminess in 5e. But, because 5e is written in such a way that you don't really see just how similar the classes are, all we really see are the differences because those differences are so strongly highlighted, we avoid the criticism.
So, I wonder just how much this criticism of sameyness is simply based on reading and not on actual play. Which, frankly, is something that 4e suffers from a LOT. It does get back to presentation. After all, if there are ten different powers with the same effect, then the game is samey, no? Well, not really. Because, sure, there are similar effect powers, but, the likelihood of actually seeing that at the table is very small because of the sheer number of powers that aren't similar.
A short rest is "about" 5 minutes long note could be less too of course and actually works fine even if more arbitrary like the fight has changed scene to a striking degree. I have seen plenty of DM advice which simply has that scene change as a trigger and allowed the players recovery as a way to make bigger encounters more interesting (I am now trying to remember where I read it). But let's say you decide to be stringent the impact is distinct even from the DM side. In 4e another encounter right after the first? is mechanically just treated and usually designed as 1 encounter the recovers immediately afterwards is pretty much a done deal in most contexts the DM has to go out of their way to avoid a breather and if he does see what I just said about it really being a single encounter. This can have an impact in flavor on the player side too one it is extremely easy to not picture the reason one is unable to use the power again in distinct ways with the 4e model to me its not just about resting. I think the tricks/quick exertions/mini-rituals etc are a better explanation by far. Tell me again how great it is to have me delay trying a disarm attempt till I get an hour rest? No in the game play dynamic the hour break makes short rests something I might have to remember what was done several fights ago ie protracted tracking in that fashion it's pretty much just a daily resource. To me your 5e BM fighters have small dailies (and every short rest character in the game too) and how exactly does that make it a more distinct? I generally think from the very beginning of D&D it has been assumed a slight breather would occur after most fights where you bind your wounds etc. And now that takes an hours dinner break to do well ummm ok sounds more than a bit over blown and doesn't really gain me anything except making any class with any resource more the same.Interesting. Didn't 4e encounter powers require a rest to get back as well? So is it mostly the duration of the rest?
Look who is taking things in isolation. Most seem to be calling powers samey without paying attention to the full picture for all I can tell for instance the fighter getting a marking mechanic and things which spark of it which can vary from fighter to fighter one increases mobility when an enemy triggers it including many many more feats than 5e to adjust those powers. My cleave does ongoing damage almost always when I use it because I have a feat and choose to maneuver to attack more isolated enemies. My ally another fighter has neither cleave nor a way to generate ongoing damage but can really deal significant amounts of damage while granting combat advantage and buffing his con (he has reaping strike and brash strike). These difference came about because of both basic at-will powers which are distinct and varying within the same class and how we play the characters (another might even have that same feat I picked and often get two enemies to hit because he wants to but recognizes he cannot always or because he is worse at maneuvering).K. Still sounds like you are trying to talk about saminess of classes based on individual powers/abilites instead of as an aggregate of all their abilities.
Martial abilities also rarely if ever create zone of effect ...And as far as the mundane vs magical distinction is concerned: there’s still a difference in 4e. You can’t polymorph with ”mundane” powers, or summon creatures. It’s not as if all the power sources cover identical effects.
Here’s the thing. You weren’t aware of the full extent of 4e ritual magic. I and others have also pointed out powers that are very varied and provide all kinds of effects. Could it be possible that your impression is faulty because you simply are not aware of all the things published 4e powers (there are literally thousands) can accomplish?