Are they getting away from strength giving "to hit bonus" and just damage?

[Death Dealer]

The problem is not with strength stats, its the way BAB is calculated.

A giant has big strength AND big base attack bonus due to its large hitdice. Normally the big strength would be partially knocked out due to the size penalty to attack rolls. However, add in the BAB and the giant becomes a good hitter.

Although realistically if you want to model the giant big hit, lots of misses model...just make them use full power attack. They will miss the vast majority of the time, but anything they touch will turn to paste.


Strength needs to stay the main stat for attack rolls over dex unless dex is greatly weakened in other areas. Dex is just too good a stat if it affects reflex, initiative, armor class, a lot of skills, AND attack rolls

From what I've seen so far, depending on what weapon or type of attack you are using, the Ability will vary. Str will probably remain the main melee attack stat, but finess weapons will use Dex and class abilities will be according to that class (Wiz spell=Int, Rog sneak attack=Dex, etc).

Remember, things like hp are supposed to be abstract, so yes the Giant may be swinging his club multiple times and missing on one die roll, but hitting the one time to cause all of that damage, depending on how the DM describes the action. If your character is high level, that 24 hp damage becomes "the giant hit the ground in front of you, causing you to fall on your back, dealing you 24hp damage. You quickly get back to your feet and dodge the follow up swing. And another, he pushes you back a few paces (all on 1 attack roll) but you roll forward and quickly slash at his leg. (You roll a 20) Critical Hit! The giant side steps your attack but has bent over at the waist. You stab upwards grazing the giant's cheek, dealing 30 hp damage. The Giant lets out a roar of pain as you run between his legs behind him. He turns to face you, with a look of vengence in his eyes!" Of course, if you were 1st level that 24hp damage might be a giant wallop right on the noggin, crushing your body into something squishy The multiple attacks are based on 2 actual die rolls. The damage comes only from the one you describe as hitting the target.

 

[ZombieRoboNinja]

I have no idea what they're up to, but I would love to see strength divorced from accuracy, so we could have big, lumbering giants swing and miss their little, agile foes.

They are changing things up a bit, but in such a way that it will precisely NOT do what you're suggesting.

According to Logan, each class's special ability is dependent on that class's key stat. So paladin Smites are based on Charisma, rogue backstabs (or whatever) are based on Dex, and that big brutish fighter's special attacks are probably still based on Strength.

More and more it sounds like the "fighter" class will be the wrong way to go for a swashbuckler or "dex fighter" character. Heck, it sounds like you can't even dual-wield without dipping into Ranger or Rogue, and if there's no way to switch fighter powers from strength-based to dex-based... meh.

Hopefully the rogue and/or ranger classes will be flexible enough that you can craft a dex-fighter character with them, either single-classed or multiclassed.

 

[Stalker0]

Hopefully the rogue and/or ranger classes will be flexible enough that you can craft a dex-fighter character with them, either single-classed or multiclassed.

From what I've heard so far, the rogue sounds like its going to be a powerhouse in 4e.

If it can use its dex with finesse weapons, then it gets all of the advantages of dex and get offense out of it. It will have great skills, and with powers it sounds like it will have more control over its sneak attack, giving it a lot of damage. I think the swashbuckler will be taken care of with the 4e rogue.

 

[Gort]

Well, given that the rogue's a "striker", it's supposed to be a powerhouse when it comes to hitting stuff.

 

[Larrin]

Well, given that the rogue's a "striker", it's supposed to be a powerhouse when it comes to hitting stuff.

Just like they were in 3.5....some of the time. If you got a flanking in, you could hit for pretty big numbers every attack and you were all of a sudden a force to be reckoned with. But some battles you'd have to go through rediculous loops just to get in one sneak attack, and you wasted 4 rounds just getting there, and you were more of a joke. If you fought undead, consturcts, plants, oozes,elementals, in the dark or fog, or any number of other situations, you're cornerstone combat ability was worthless. 4e is just giving them some consistincy, you know like the other classes had.

More on topic:

I'm all up for the powers being all 'dex VS AC' and 'CHA VS will' and i hope each class will have and assortment of each abilty. Fights will have alot of STR vs X, but theres nothing inherent in them that prohibits there from being some DEX or CON attacks. Rogues will no doubt have alot of DEX VS X, but why not some INT and CHA's (for trickery and bluff type powers). Paladins have CHA and WIS, probably they'll have a STR related power in there somewhere....that way you can build a high INT rogue and use your INT vs Fort sneak attacks to sicken them or something, while another build has high charisma and CHA vs WILL to get them to drop their guard, so they (despite low dex attribute scores) can get in a standard DEX vs AC sneak attack next round. I think it could be very interesting and diverse what types of builds you could make with a variety of different attribute based power sets.