D&D (2024) Are You Happy with the Selection of Subclasses?

[squibbles]

At this point, we have a pretty good idea which subclasses will be in the new PHB, though we don't know all of them yet. What do you think of the ones they ultimately decided to include? Are there any excluded that you think are unfortunate omissions?

You're welcome to answer in mechanics or thematics terms but, for me, the main question is whether they captured the major fantasy archetypes.

For reference, here's a list of all the subclasses we've seen in the playtests so far:

1. barbarian--4 subclasses so far​
   1. path of the berserker (playtest 5 & 7)​
   2. path of the wild heart (i.e. totem warrior, playtest 7)​
   3. path of the world tree (playtest 7)​
   4. path of the zealot (playtest 7)​
2. bard--4 subclasses so far​
   1. college of dance (playtest 6)​
   2. college of glamour (playtest 6)​
   3. college of lore (playtest 2 & 6)​
   4. college of valor (playtest 6)​
3. cleric--4 subclasses so far​
   1. life domain (playtest 3 & 6)​
   2. light domain (playtest 6)​
   3. trickery domain (playtest 6)​
   4. war domain (playtest 6)​
4. druid--3 subclasses so far​
   1. circle of the land (playtest 6)​
   2. circle of the moon (playtest 4 & 6)​
   3. circle of the sea (playtest 6)​
   4. circle of stars (playtest 6)​
5. fighter--4 subclasses so far​
   1. battlemaster (playtest 7)​
   2. brawler (playtest 7)​
   3. champion (playtest 5 & 7)​
   4. eldritch knight (playtest 7)​
6. monk--3 subclasses so far​
   1. warrior of shadow (playtest 6)​
   2. warrior of the elements (playtest 6)​
   3. warrior of the hand (playtest 6)​
   4. warrior of mercy (playtest 6)​
7. paladin--4 subclasses so far​
   1. oath of devotion (playtest 4 and 6)​
   2. oath of glory (playtest 6)​
   3. oath of the ancients (playtst 6)​
   4. oath of vengeance (playtest 6)​
8. ranger--3 subclasses so far​
   1. beast master (playtest 6)​
   2. fey wanderer (playtest 6)​
   3. gloom stalker (playtest 6)​
   4. hunter (playtest 2 and 6)​
9. rogue--4 subclasses so far​
   1. arcane trickster (playtest 6)​
   2. assassin (playtest 6)​
   3. swashbuckler (playtest 6)​
   4. thief (playtest 2 and 6)​
10. sorecerer--2 subclasses so far​
    1. aberrant sorcery (playtest 7)​
    2. clockwork sorcery (playtest 7)​
    3. draconic sorcery (playtest 5 and 7)​
    4. wild magic sorcery (playtest 7)​
11. warlock--4 subclasses so far​
    1. archfey patron (playtest 7)​
    2. celestial patron (playtest 7)​
    3. fiend patron (playtest 5 & 7)​
    4. great old one patron (playtest 7)​
12. wizard--4 subclasses so far​
    1. abjurer (playtest 7)​
    2. diviner (playtest 7)​
    3. evoker (playtest 5 & 7)​
    4. illusionist (playtest 7)​

Please let me know if I missed any, thanks!

 

[Dyson Logos]

Honestly?

I wish there were fewer.

 

[Remathilis]

At this point, we have a pretty good idea which subclasses will be in the new PHB, though we don't know all of them yet. What do you think of the ones they ultimately decided to include? Are there any excluded that you think are unfortunate omissions?

You're welcome to answer in mechanics or thematics terms but, for me, the main question is whether they captured the major fantasy archetypes.

For reference, here's a list of all the subclasses we've seen in the playtests so far:

1. barbarian--4 subclasses so far​
   1. path of the berserker (playtest 5 & 7)​
   2. path of the wild heart (i.e. totem warrior, playtest 7)​
   3. path of the world tree (playtest 7)​
   4. path of the zealot (playtest 7)​
2. bard--4 subclasses so far​
   1. college of dance (playtest 6)​
   2. college of glamour (playtest 6)​
   3. college of lore (playtest 2 & 6)​
   4. college of valor (playtest 6)​
3. cleric--4 subclasses so far​
   1. life domain (playtest 3 & 6)​
   2. light domain (playtest 6)​
   3. trickery domain (playtest 6)​
   4. war domain (playtest 6)​
4. druid--3 subclasses so far​
   1. circle of the land (playtest 6)​
   2. circle of the moon (playtest 4 & 6)​
   3. circle of the sea (playtest 6)​
5. fighter--4 subclasses so far​
   1. battlemaster (playtest 7)​
   2. brawler (playtest 7)​
   3. champion (playtest 5 & 7)​
   4. eldritch knight (playtest 7)​
6. monk--3 subclasses so far​
   1. warrior of shadow (playtest 6)​
   2. warrior of the elements (playtest 6)​
   3. warrior of the hand (playtest 6)​
7. paladin--4 subclasses so far​
   1. oath of devotion (playtest 4 and 6)​
   2. oath of glory (playtest 6)​
   3. oath of the ancients (playtst 6)​
   4. oath of vengeance (playtest 6)​
8. ranger--3 subclasses so far​
   1. beast master (playtest 6)​
   2. gloom stalker (playtest 6)​
   3. hunter (playtest 2 and 6)​
9. rogue--4 subclasses so far​
   1. arcane trickster (playtest 6)​
   2. assassin (playtest 6)​
   3. swashbuckler (playtest 6)​
   4. thief (playtest 2 and 6)​
10. sorecerer--2 subclasses so far​
    1. draconic sorcery (playtest 5 and 7)​
    2. wild magic sorcery (playtest 7)​
11. warlock--4 subclasses so far​
    1. archfey patron (playtest 7)​
    2. celestial patron (playtest 7)​
    3. fiend patron (playtest 5 & 7)​
    4. great old one patron (playtest 7)​
12. wizard--4 subclasses so far​
    1. abjurer (playtest 7)​
    2. diviner (playtest 7)​
    3. evoker (playtest 5 & 7)​
    4. illusionist (playtest 7)​

Please let me know if I missed any, thanks!

Druid: Circle of Stars
Sorcerer: Clockwork Sorcery and Aberrant Sorcery
Ranger: Fey Wanderer
Monk: Warrior of Mercy

Those subs are going in pretty much verbatim from Tasha or Xanathar and weren't in the Playtest. We were told to use them as-is.

 

[mamba]

Mostly, there are a few I do not like much and some I would rather have.

The Barbarian Zealot, and Cleric Trickery domain I can do without. Same for Fighter Brawler, and the Wizard Abjurer and Illusionist. For the last I'd rather have a Necromancer instead, Barbarian should have the Ancestral Guardian.

Sorcerer: Clockwork Sorcery and Aberrant Sorcery should not exist at all.

 

[Frozen_Heart]

Not a fan of aberrant and clockwork being picked for sorcerer. Both subclasses were already in a great spot, while some of the older and iconic subclasses desperately needed reworking.

I'm also frustrated that we didn't get a necromancer wizard. We've not got any 'edgy' death or shadow subclasses at all. No death or grave cleric, no shadow sorcerer, no hexblade, and most importantly no necromancer.

 

[Minigiant]

No,

1. Barbarian is fine.
   1. I'd Prefer Storm but World Tree is fine.
2. Bard is good
3. Cleric is okay
   1. Replace Trickery With Storm
   2. Death AND Grave in DMG
4. Druid is okay
   1. Sun Druid for the Sun, Moon, Sea, Land
5. Fighter is meh
   1. Replace Brawler with Knight Paragon, a warrior who focuses on the weapons, armor, and attitude of a warrior culture
6. Monk is getting Way of Mercy. Still needs an Master of Spiritual energy subclass
7. Paladin is good
   1. Oathbreaker for DMG
8. Ranger is getting Fey Wanderer
9. Rogue is fine
10. Sorcerer is ugh
    1. Replace Aberrant Sorcery and Clockwork Sorcery with Divine Sorcery and "Pure Arcane Sorcery"
11. Warlock is fine
    1. Would prefer to see Vestige warlock to be a warlock of dead gods and slain intelligent monsters.
12. Wizard is okay
    1. Necromancy in the DMG

 

[Remathilis]

Not a fan of aberrant and clockwork being picked for sorcerer. Both subclasses were already in a great spot, while some of the older and iconic subclasses desperately needed reworking.

I'm also frustrated that we didn't get a necromancer wizard. We've not got any 'edgy' death or shadow subclasses at all. No death or grave cleric, no shadow sorcerer, no hexblade, and most importantly no necromancer.

Heroes of Shadow, coming in 2025.

Apparently, the warlock used up all the budget on edge for 24. Monk and ranger got the only shadow subs

 

[bedir than]

I remain saddened that the Schools of Wizardry weren't bundled together in one sub with concepts like Bladesinger, War Mage and Scribe moved to the PHB

 

[Arilyn]

I'm having trouble with clerics. There should be a lot of domains to choose from, as there are a myriad of deities in most campaigns. Maybe WotC should have not used domains as archetypes? Maybe clerical domains should be more along the lines of scholar, missionary, etc. Too late now.

 

[fluffybunbunkittens]

When you're paring things back down to just four, I would definitely pick conceptually stronger archetypes than what many classes seem to be getting. I know 'buy our previous books, they're still good!' muddies the waters on that, so I'll just ignore that and treat this list as a new core book that shows you What These Classes Are About.

Barbarian: world tree is weird (tries to be Kratos? maybe?) and I'm surprised this isn't Ancestral Guardian, which was its own kind of tanky protector, and ancestor spirits are definitely on theme. Zealot has religious connotations, so I don't think it should thematically be under Barbarian. Wildheart is awful, because it is done so much better in BG3, and that hurts because thematically it is my favorite and the most barbarian-y option.

Cleric gets three actual common archetypes, and then there's Trickery out of nowhere, because Ninja Cleric is a core concept? I'm giving them a pass on just using domains for these, because deities are inherently tied to the setting, so it's harder to make setting-optional subclasses... so why ninja clerics

Fighter gets Brawler, a complete catastrophe mechanically, so why are they trying to put it in with barely any time for feedback or revisions? Likely because they cannot tell it is incredibly bad. So that's half of Fighter subclasses wasted, because Champion still exists.

Ranger, my objection is that Gloom Stalker and Hunter are not themes, it's just what you were going to do anyways. Fey Wanderer, meanwhile, is mechanically and thematically great.

Sorcerer is in a weird place if they're really going to put Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul in. Decide what a Sorcerer is, please, I thought they were bloodlines and now they're not. I am not feeling how Sorcerers are separate from Warlocks thematically, or Wizards mechanically. But, Wild Magic is playable for the first time in 10 years, so that's something.

Wizard sticks to the magic schools, which is, like, awful. No-one is excited about abjuration - a wizard specializing in wards and protective magics could be a theme, but telling us the name of his 3rd year wizard studies class isn't. And you cannot cover more than four of them, which makes them even worse as a choice.