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D&D 5E as a new DM, how do I handle a group of wanna be thieves?

sgtscott658

First Post
The Assassins Guild is a DM's best tool in the tool box of DM ideas. If the Rogues guild in your world world is having problems with the players, send a few Assassins their way to teach them a lesson in stealing in guild territory. If the players complain about getting off'ed by the Assassins, tell them "Its only business" As vito corilone would say.

The fighter, the mage, the warlock, the cleric and the ranger are constantly trying to steal from people, kill NPCs and decieve one another. Not only does tis steal the rogue's thunder but also is problematic because I essentially can't get a story rolling because of these shenanigans. Some of these characters even describe themselves as lawful but I feel weird enforcing alignment and telling characters what they "would" do. Also several of them have been to jail and I'm starting to wonder if either they should get in more permanent trouble or I should just gloss over these actions and force the story more.
Thanks in advance!
Kyle
 

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Piratecat

Sesquipedalian
Oh man, a heist- and con-based adventuring party would be unbelievable amounts of fun. Steal legendary stuff from angry powerful people, then stay alive to enjoy it. I'd be all over this.

Leverage makes for a good model. Alternate cons with robberies and vaults, have their enemies gradually accumulate, and have professional rivals who seethe with jealousy.
 

the Jester

Legend
The DM's fun is just as important as the players' - it is at least worth explicitly stating 'you guys this is not what I had in mind, can we try and rework it?' Before trying to run a game you don't find fun.

I'd say rather that it is worth trying to get on the same page with the players before deciding not to run a game that's no fun for you.

No DM has to run a game that she doesn't enjoy.
 



Oh man, a heist- and con-based adventuring party would be unbelievable amounts of fun. Steal legendary stuff from angry powerful people, then stay alive to enjoy it. I'd be all over this.

Leverage makes for a good model. Alternate cons with robberies and vaults, have their enemies gradually accumulate, and have professional rivals who seethe with jealousy.

I think the con & heist game would be awesome but I'm less sure about the Leverage model in actual play.

- The model is based on a diverse group of highly trained specialists who work loosely together but are most often each doing their own thing. Thus a constantly split party. In a modern game the PCs can coordinate via ear buds but in a D&D setting it doesn't work so well.
 

The DM's fun is just as important as the players' - it is at least worth explicitly stating 'you guys this is not what I had in mind, can we try and rework it?' Before trying to run a game you don't find fun.
Of course (I prefer GMing to playing anyway.) But neither one is going to have much fun if there's a radical disconnect. And the GM's "vision" of the game can hardly be expected to trump the expectations of... from appearances... everyone else at the table.

At some point, you have to ask yourself first if you're running the right game for this group. If you won't have fun running the right game for them, you then have to ask yourself if you have the right group in the first place.
 

Joe Liker

First Post
Just tell them you're going to save the story you had planned for another time (or another group of players). If you don't mind running the outlaw campaign, maybe tell them you need a short break to work up something more along the lines of what they're looking for.

You definitely need to ask any law-breaking lawful characters to change their alignment. This doesn't really have any mechanical consequences in the game, but as a description on the character sheet, it should be accurate and reflect the character's attitudes and actions during play.

I feel like Lock, Stock and Two Smoking Barrels is a better model than Leverage for the style of hijinks described by the OP. In the latter, the protagonists may work outside the law, but they are still primarily trying to help people. This guy's players are not nearly so noble.
 

Starting my recent campaign I defined the three basic types of adventuring parties as heroes, vagabonds, villains, and agents. The first three correspond more or less to good, neutral, and evil parties, while the third category if for a group where each individual has a strong personal motivation to be there working together (such as working for the same organization or patron).

I explained how the different types of parties would act, making pretty clear where the line is between hero and vagabond, and between vagabond and villain. I told them that a party of villains is off the table for this campaign, with a little of explanation to the newer players as to the dynamics of evil parties and how you have to plan the campaign around the idea for it work (other experienced players did as much as I did in explaining it to the newer players, so that was helpful).

I told them that they can discuss amongst themselves and choose where they want their party to fit in that classification. They ended up going with a combination of vagabonds and agents. 3 of the characters were determined to have basically been a group of three traveling friends. The other 3 characters didn't have any party connections, but the whole group was working for the same organization and had some positive connection to a particular NPC. (It's starting with Lost Mine of Phandelver, and the characters were all hired by Neverwinter as supplemental forces with Gundren Rockseeker as a shared friend).

Then, to make it even more up to them, while still maintaining my DM interest, I explained the rules used (everything in the PHB is allowed for this campaign, with a 2-page sheet of house rules and clarifications that won't matter to half of the characters); then explained how to make their party.

I instructed them that each player needs to think up a few different character concepts. Type them up (online VTT) and place them under their name where everyone can see them. Then they could create a party by choosing which characters they were going to play to make a good party.

It worked like magic. Everyone (with one exception) is on the same page, they made a party that covered all the bases (rather than a mismatched group like you get when everyone shows up with a single character they *must* play for that campaign), and the best part is that I didn't have to even look heavy handed.

They pretty much did all the party creation work, and then I checked back after a while to see what they came up with. Then we dismissed for players to create characters, and planned to start up with our characters on the next session.

The one exception is the newest player who seems to really want to play a villain, but has tempered it a bit, and I have hopes her character is going to fit in fine. If she doesn't, she'd feel pretty uncomfortable since the group all decided together what type of party to play and how they were going to put it together and it was all clearly defined.

And as the DM you must be clear on your expectations also. If you are running a game about heroes from the classic classes and races, then you need to tell them that's what the game is about, and if they aren't on board then you don't run it (or run it for those who are on board).

That's my new standard. Figure out what you're doing before you create a party, or the characters that compose it. Then everyone knows what's going to be the game, and knows what they are signing up for or not.
 


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