D&D 5E Attack cantrips are a waste of the DM's time

[JamesonCourage]

I'm not sure how this is wasting time at the table... doesn't it take about the same amount of time for the GM or the player rolling the die and adding 1 number to it?

Regardless, I'm not going to be disappointed one way or another. My RPG has both the player and the GM roll, so it's more swingy in that regard (though the defender can always choose to take a 10). So, attack rolls for spells of all sorts are not a rare thing to me. As always, play what you like

 

[Sadrik]

Ok lets break this down, with all these I like attack rolls comments.

So you like rays being d20+DEX vs. a defense or you like d20+magic stat vs. a defense or something else.

A defense can be AC, 10+DEX, or go against some other stat.

Something that came out of the other thread that I agree with is that armor should protect you against a fireball. So I like AC being basically your reflex save. Flip it around so you can interchangeably have either party roll without affecting the math.

Also there were two threads about this previously the more elaborate one is here.

 

[JasonZZ]

I think they need to go away period. They're horribly over-powered, for one thing, and nothing more than a benny for entitlement deprived players.

They amount to a built-in crossbow. If you consider that overpowered, I'd hate to see what you think of fighter attack bonuses and maneuvers.

Also, sneering about how someone else's playstyle is "entitled" is itself the embodiment of entitlement--you seem to think yours is the One True Way, when no such thing exists.

 

[pming]

Hiya.

I think the damage is a bit high. I'd reduce to 1d4 and use what I use for one of my 1e campaign worlds. What I do for that, is any magic-user casting a Cantrip he knows can cast *each* cantrip a number of times per day equal to his level (they just put a tick next to it when they cast it). They can try it to cast more that that, but have to make an Int check with a -1 per extra Cantrip over their max, cumulative. If/when they fail, they can't cast that one for the rest of the day (re: until they rest and recover spells).

Ex: A 4th level MU with a 15 Int can cast the Cantrip "Bluelight" 4 times in a day. On the 5th try, he makes an Int check at -1. If he succeeds, he can cast it again, at -2. Rinse, repeat. Eventually he will fail the Int check and not be able to cast Bluelight anymore that day.

This served to make wizardry magic more "powerful" in 1e terms (and how MU's are in my homebrew world for it), and took out saves and rolling from my perspective.

^_^

Paul L. Ming

 

[VinylTap]

A big problem is convincing new players that their wizard should/needs be sporting an xbow. If they roll a wizard, they want to play spells, and not be gimped archers for 75% of the dungeon/encounters. It doesn't matter how powerful their spells are, if they're situational for 1 of the 3-4 encounters in a dungeon, their not worth anything to the player who can't use them yet.

Although, I agree that mechanically, having damage cantrips upsets the game a bit.

 

[Wulfgar76]

A wizard with a typical Dexterity score of 14 shoots a Crossbow at a +2 to hit (AC) and deals 1d8+2 damage. So IMO attack cantrips should be at least that good.

Though there is debate on the issue, I personally find a Wizard who, when out of spells, whips out a clunky weapon used by soldiers far more 'immersion-breaking' than pinging little magical bolts all day.

 

[VinylTap]

I think its mostly the inexhaustible nature of unlimited cantrips that makes them a little unwieldy, it gets messy in the same way 'fly' gets messy, when there are no limits on your abilities they often get out of hand with creative folks. At least with a xbow you're limited to your arrow supply-- and they're mundane.

 

[Weather Report]

Rays and lances should probably be attack rolls. Pew pew pew and all that.

Save the saving throws for bigger effects and/or ongoing effects. Not EVERYTHING needs to be an attack roll, but yer lasers probably should be.

Yes, and I'm sure it's been said, but Mike Mearls mentioned spells such as rays/lances targeting AC in the next Packet, as they were in the 1st Playtest Packet (love that packet).

 

[cmbarona]

I think its mostly the inexhaustible nature of unlimited cantrips that makes them a little unwieldy, it gets messy in the same way 'fly' gets messy, when there are no limits on your abilities they often get out of hand with creative folks. At least with a xbow you're limited to your arrow supply-- and they're mundane.

Huh... To be honest, I never bother tracking ammo, and I've not been in any groups who do, aside from modern games which have clips or chambers in guns. And even then, it's considered easier to just assume you have infinite capacity to reload, unless you do anything out of the ordinary. I guess I've always considered ammo supplies to be best handled under DM fiat.

"Can I siege the camp with sling stones all day?" "You could do it for about ten minutes before you start running out of viable stones you can find. Not to mention that your arm will start cramping. Then you'll need to take a break and gather more ammo."

"Can I use Ray of Frost to freeze this fish for transportation?" "It will take a solid ten minutes to freeze it well enough for that. After that point, your concentration will start waning and you'll need to take a break. It will thaw by the time you can start again."

 

[Falling Icicle]

I think its mostly the inexhaustible nature of unlimited cantrips that makes them a little unwieldy, it gets messy in the same way 'fly' gets messy, when there are no limits on your abilities they often get out of hand with creative folks. At least with a xbow you're limited to your arrow supply-- and they're mundane.

Ammunition isn't very hard to come by, especially when players can store thousands upon thousands of arrows/bolts with bags of holding, handy haversacks, and magical quivers (or even just mundane pack mules). If it really bothers you that much, you could always make these spells require a cheap material component that costs about the same as an arrow.