attacking an area a little higher: blasts and bursts in 3D

[evilbob]

One old trick in 3.5 was to cast a fireball up in the air; since they were effectively spheres, you could target a smaller area that way (typically to avoid friendlies). Casting one 20' in the air hit only a single space. (Of course, that's no longer possible due to the 1 square = 1 move thing which causes all spheres to become squares, but that's a side issue.)

None of the powers listed for 4.0 seem to describe a physical area, but instead concentrate on "squares." Does it seem reasonable that the old "fireball trick" could be reasonably replicated? Or to put it another way: would you think that blasts and bursts are 3-dimensional or just flat? Does a 3x3 burst effect only 1x3x3, or is it 3x3x3?

Here's a specific example: I want to cast burning hands to hit a group of enemies, but my buddy is lying prone in the area (unconscious or otherwise). Can I shoot the effect slightly "higher" so that I hit all standing creatures but not prone ones? Say, 3' off the ground?

Or, could I angle a thunderwave "up" so that it only hit the first row of three squares in front of me (and presumably the air above them)?

Ideas?

 

[Zaruthustran]

Angling a thunderwave "up", so that it pushes people into the air, sounds pretty fun. But I recall a rule that said you have to push along the ground. For Burning Hands, the AOE affects the entire square--no subdivisions allowed. That's the downside of AOE attacks that target "each creature in square" as opposed to "each enemy in square." There's a tradeoff for that power.

Of course, those are Rules As Written interpretations. If you and your friends want to play it so that you can shape things a bit, go ahead.

Keep in mind, though, that that would essentially give you the benefits of an Epic feat--spell accuracy--for free.

 

[Tony Vargas]

I believe there's a Paragon feat that lets you exclude specific squares from your area. Aside from that, areas some to be pretty inflexible cubes, because of the way distance is counted.

 

[Vaeron]

To exclude specific squares you can take a feat later on... As far as what squares are effected - I'd say that since 4e is visually (specifically mini) focused, and there is no real mention made in the books that I've seen, scorching burst means exactly that. 1 square out in all directions from the point of origin. So if you aimed it 2 squares up, it'd be a nice big firesquare 5 ft-15 ft up and 3 squares wide. Since some monsters can fly, and you can aim at them, it's the most sensible interpretation. Since origin is usually a monster standing on the ground, typically it would lose squares to the cover the earth provides. So none of that AoE-hitting-monsters-thru-the-floor found in early MMOs.

 

[Kaffis]

Yes, it's a firecube. (which is a sphere in 4e's measuring system -- diagonals are equidistant to orthoganals) Yes, that means that there's no shooting high to contain the effect at ground level.

No, I don't like the idea of aiming half a square up. Either apologize to your ally later, or figure out a different power to use. Or get the appropriate feats in the appropriate tiers.

Granted, I'm not your DM, so I'm simply offering my feelings on the matter, rather than anythign definitive for your game.

 

[balard]

I would allow this kind of tactic this way: You angle your power up, so you automatically miss anyone that is prone. Miss effects occur normally.

 

[evilbob]

I think you specifically cannot use thunderwave's power to push anyone "up." That is actually in the PHB.

I'm also not talking about excluding a specific square - although that is the net effect. I'm talking about aiming a power in a 3-dimensional space so as to take advantage of a different plane than "along the ground," which is where the PHB seems to think all powers should be.

It still seems pretty reasonable to me. I guess it partially depends on how you envision the powers to take shape. Then again, if you ever start to have an areal battle, this discussion would be even more important.

For those to whom this doesn't seem reasonable, why isn't it so?

 

[Mouseferatu]

Considering that

A) I like creative casting, and

B) Rob Heinsoo allowed this in a sample game he ran recently,

I'd certainly allow it for "sphere" spells, at least.

 

[Treebore]

I go with what makes sense. So if its not like a wall that has to be created on the ground, then yeah, I'd allow it. I would make there be some kind of intelligence related check to "judge it correctly" though. If they roll badly I get to have fun!

 

[Wormwood]

When fun conflicts with the battlemat, the battlemat should give way.

This is not hard, people.