Authors and Artists that still Wage-Slave

[Thad Enouf]

Not odd at all really.,,needing to write. Art is a skill that can be learned, but I believe that it is the NEED to do it that makes one an artist.

Well said, fellow Michigander.

 

[Xyanthon]

I like your work...art student background or were you born talented?

Thanks, I have been drawing *upcoming huge cliche....wait for it* since I could hold a pencil. However, I was an art student in college for a time. I learned much more on my own. The only thing that college art courses did for me was give me access to medium that I didn't have access to on my own. I believe art, much as most other things in life, improves with work. Hopefully, I'll be able to improve to a point where I can get some more high profile work. For me, it's not necessarily about being able to quit my day job as much as it is about being able to get my work out there in front of people.

 

[Ostlander]

Getting it out there can be a hassle. I learned that it's who you know, just like any other endeavor.

You're on the right track right now, so keep up the good work!

 

[Ostlander]

So that's when it's out. Working on my next two now.

Peace,





Dear Eric Allaire,


The official release date for your book, Ostland, will be approximately two months from the date of printing (Monday, 4/2/2007), on Monday, 6/4/2007. This is the date by which other booksellers should have your book’s information in their ordering systems.


Shameless pimping, but an FYI...

So is this topic dead yet, lol?

 

[ha-gieden]

I hope it's not dead, I just got here!

My "day job" is watching my three children and trying desperately to keep on top of all the housecleaning and bill paying. Next August, I begin home schooling a group of 3 year olds. Nonetheless, I persevere!

Pirate Cat, here's how it worked for me:

step 1: Pour heart and soul into manuscript
step 2: Send manuscript to wrong publisher at wrong time, get rejected
step 3: Trash manuscript and start over (we artists can be tempermental )
step 4: Write much better story
step 5: Actually research publishers
step 6: Send "Querry Letter" (This is where you sum up your novel in about 4 sentences so the publisher can tell you if they are even somewhat interested)
step 7: Jump through every hoop the publishers present (DO NOT SEND MONEY!!!)
step 8: Sign contract that basically states that I get no advance, but 15% gross on all monies recieved for my work
step 9: Send same publisher lots of "tie-in" materials, since now I had an "in"
step 10: Sign more contracts, nearly identical to the first
step 11: Wait.

I didn't go through an agent, though many publishers require that you do. I recommend buying a "Writer's Market". It's a fabulous book that lists nearly all the publishers currently looking to take submissions, complete with the genres that they are looking for, the likelyhood of their signing a previously unpublished author, and short paragraphs on the "do's" and "don'ts" of submitting to them.

Good luck to everyone here!

 

[ha-gieden]

DOH!
Forgot to mention:
I am considering starting a writers' group that works through E-mail. Basically, we would support each other, give critiques, occasionally help with editing, and share what we know about the publishing world. If anyone is interested, E-mail me.

 

[takyris]

Agents are evil fleecers!

While you may be writing humorously, this is an insulting statement to a great many agents who bust their butts trying to get good writers published. It's also largely inaccurate. There are people who call themselves agents who are in fact evil fleecers, but by using "Preditors & Editors" (see below) and other sites, along with a few simple rules, you can pretty reliably weed out the bad ones.

The simple rule of "They only get paid when they sell your book, and they don't refer you to an editing service" will answer the question for you right there most of the time.

Agents should be avoided nowadays, unless you reallllllly are sure that your work is "the bomb"

Just to play devil's advocate... two points:

1) I'm not sure what your qualificataions for "the bomb" are, but I'd recommend an agent for anyone who's serious about their work. It's not a vital first step, but it's a step you'll likely want to take if you move from "occasional writer" to "serious novelist". If you walk through the local bookstore and look at the books in the F&SF shelves, it's a safe bet that 99% of the novels on those shelves are written by people who have agents -- or by people who didn't have agents when they wrote that book, but do now. (And the only reason I'm saying 99% and not 100% is because I'm sure there's one or two people who self-rep, because they have a strong contract-law background.)

2) If you don't consider your work "the bomb", why are you writing? I know that modesty is appealing in a public forum, but to be completely honest, if I didn't think that my writing was good enough to sit on the shelves at Borders (or on the way to being that good), I'd probably hang up my keyboard.

Anyway, try a POD or something for your first. Never pay money up front. If you get published, then consider an agent for any further work if the first doesn't sell OR if it does sell big and you want to access bigger markets with more novels!

I disagree with this, but your mileage may vary. I hope that the POD gig works out for you!

My experience has been like that of the other folks who posted big lists. Write, edit, submit. A couple of addendums:

1) I recommend submitting to both an agent and a publisher. You can submit to one of each at the same time. It used to be that publishers very rarely looked at unsolicited manuscripts, and agents were a sort of first boundary -- the unofficial slush readers for the publishers. (That is to say, getting an agent was an indication to the publisher that your work was good enough to be worth looking at.) That's still true, but it's actually getting a lot harder to get an agent these days, and a lot of people are getting a novel accepted and THEN getting an agent (either for the first novel, or after they get the first one published).

2) With that in mind, there are several major markets that accept unsolicited manuscripts. I don't have an agent, and I currently have novels sitting with Tor, Daw, Baen, and Roc. The wait times are very long (measured in years, not months), but there is a chance -- every year, Tor publishes novels that they pulled from the slush pile (the pile of unsolicited and unagented manuscripts).

(Currently, the Tor and Baen novels have me cautiously optimistic -- the Tor editor asked for the full novel after seeing the first few chapters, and the Baen novel was passed up to the senior editors. Daw hasn't read my piece yet, and I just submitted my most recent novel to Roc a few days ago.)

3) The one step I'd emphasize from ha-gieden's post is "write another manuscript". That doesn't mean giving up on the existing one. With wait times measured in years, the best thing you can possibly do for your career is to keep writing, keep getting feedback from friends and fellow writers, and keep improving. Even if your current novel never sells, it might well give you the writing practice you need to write the one that WILL sell.

Also, most major publishers sign authors to multi-book contracts, and with a new writer, they often want proof that you aren't a one-hit wonder. So they could very well accept your book contingent upon you having another book proposal that interests them -- and having one or more additional novels already completed is a great way to keep the wheels turning.

4) Finally, if you don't want to shell out money for the Writer's Market books, don't. You can get good information that's more up-to-date by visiting one of the following sites:

http://www.ralan.com/ -- a market listing with a good list of book publishers
http://www.agentquery.com/ -- a large list of agents
http://www.invirtuo.cc/prededitors/ -- a wonderful list of reputable and disreputable agents

I say all this with no novel publications of my own (although I've got about ten short story sales), so please take all that as the advice of someone else who's on the outside of the market looking in.

 

[Ostlander]

Wow

That's awesome advice, I mean it. I wish I had that from the start, but all I got from the beginning was ...I can help...for only $$$ up front, or here's a packet on how to find people to pay $$$ to and so on...
The agents I browsed were the fleecers and there was all this money up front they wanted, blah....blah.

I wasn't trying to portray that I actually know anything; I'm new at this and I've already hit a lot of rough patches...scary market for sure...it's safer doing the painting/drawing thing locally IMO.

 

[Ostlander]

[QUOTE/]

2) If you don't consider your work "the bomb", why are you writing? I know that modesty is appealing in a public forum, but to be completely honest, if I didn't think that my writing was good enough to sit on the shelves at Borders (or on the way to being that good), I'd probably hang up my keyboard.





I say all this with no novel publications of my own (although I've got about ten short story sales), so please take all that as the advice of someone else who's on the outside of the market looking in.[/QUOTE]


The bomb: If I think it's good. This is my first work and different from the artwork I usually do. Scared to death about it really. What a pain writing and getting published can be.

It's cool that you don't have any published novels. An opinion is an opinion and I/we should all appreciate it...it's what this topic is all about...Q & A.

 

[Piratecat]

Pirate Cat, here's how it worked for me:

Ha-geiden, Tacky - really interesting! I suspect that if I tackle this, I'll want to do so strategically. Knowing more about agents and publishers makes that easier.